'Alexander Hill Gray ' comments & questions

	Photo		Comments & Questions

Alexander Hill Gray rose photo courtesy of member HMF supporting member

HubertG

My HMF:

Discussion id : 109-524 most recent 23 OCT 18 SHOW ALL

Initial post 23 MAR 18 by Andrew from Dolton

Reply #1 of 19 posted 31 MAR 18 by HMF supporting member

HubertG

Andrew, thank you. It really is a beautifully formed rose. That was a rainy day - bad for Alexander Hill Gray if it hasn't opened yet because it balls a bit, but good for the lighting for photography.	REPLY

Reply #2 of 19 posted 31 MAR 18 by Andrew from Dolton

Reply #3 of 19 posted 7 SEP 18 by HMF supporting member

HubertG

Reply #4 of 19 posted 7 SEP 18 by Andrew from Dolton

Yes HubertG it's certainly worth thinking about. I can grow 'Hume's Blush Tea-Scented China' reasonably well but it has to be grown against the house for extra warmth and covered with a big sheet of glass from November to April to keep the worst of the wet away. Its neighbour is what is being sold by Beales as 'Park's Yellow' but will probably turn out to be 'Fée Opale' and that has made masses of growths this year (mostly in the last four weeks) and looks very healthy. I've just ordered 'Louis VIX' which will need cosseting, but yes, if you can guarantee a few more summers like this year then I'll certainly be up for trying some teas. 'Sanguinea' and 'Archduke Charles' grow and flower after a fashion but are very weak.

Reply #5 of 19 posted 7 SEP 18 by HMF supporting member

HubertG

I was just reading in the old Rosen-Zeitung which teas survived well through German winters. Mme Lombard was one, and Dr. Grill. I'll try to find it again and post it. I do remember them saying Francis Dubreuil suffered badly, and Maman Cochet had little damage. I think a lot of the Teas are cold hardier than often thought.	REPLY

Reply #6 of 19 posted 7 SEP 18 by Andrew from Dolton

Thanks, that will be very interesting. 'White Maman Cochet' was one I had my eye on to grow in a pot against the house and 'Dr Grill' too as it is so historically important. The winters are not such a problem but the short cool damp summers are difficult. Last year we had precipitation in one form or another almost every day from the end of July until October.	REPLY

Reply #7 of 19 posted 8 SEP 18 by HMF supporting member

HubertG

From page 61, of the 1900 Rosen Zeitung. (not a direct translation):

These were killed off in a bad winter: Mme Eug. Verdier, Francis Dubreuil, Arch. Maria Immaculata, Perle des Jardins, Sunset, Franziska Kruger and Papa Gontier.

Suffering less were: Coquette de Lyon, Hon. Edith Gifford, Mlle Christine de Noue, Maman Cochet and Princesse de Sagan.

These faired well: Andre Schwartz, Baronne Henriette de Loew, Catherine Mermet, Comtesse de Frigneuse, Dr Grill, G. Nabonnand, Grace Darling, Mme Lombard, Princesse Alice de Monaco, Princesse de Bessarabe, Souvenir de Catherine Guillot, Luciole, The Queen, Frau Geheimrat von Boch, Principessa di Napoli, Prince Theodore Galitzine and The Sweet Little Queen.

I know a lot aren't available but thought I 'd mention them just in case you want to look into their pedigrees to find clues for other hardy teas.
I'd pick Mme Lombard, G. Nabonnand (or its sport Peace) for you and maybe Grace Darling and Souv, de Catherine Guillot if it's available there. I don't know that the British Dr Grill is correct. The Cochets do ball badly in rain which might be a problem - when they are good here they are very, very good, but when they are bad they are horrid. ;-)

Reply #8 of 19 posted 10 SEP 18 by Andrew from Dolton

This is not a direction I want my garden going in! Rather than spending a lot of extra effort trying to grow plants from warmer climates, concentrate on plants that grow well in my conditions, gallica roses for example. I did however just try to order 'White Maman Cochet' from Beales but they've sold out so I ordered 'Nuits de Young' from Trevor White instead. I am very interested though by 'Gilbert Nabonnand' and 'Dr Grill', so very tempting...

Did you ever get any plants to grow from your 'White Maman Cochet' seed?

Reply #9 of 19 posted 10 SEP 18 by HMF supporting member

HubertG

None of the 'White Maman Cochet' seeds have germinated yet, although I didn't plant all of them. In fact of all the different seeds I planted last winter only one has germinated so far.	REPLY

Reply #10 of 19 posted 14 SEP 18 by HMF supporting member

HubertG

Andrew, I just came across this and thought I'd mention it here. There's an article in the 1914 Journal des roses, (Feb1, p22) that lists some Teas and HT's that survived the freezing winter of 1913 in France. The two Teas currently on lists that survived back then were Safrano and Mme. Jules Gravereaux.
Safrano is only semi-double (if that) and should open in damp conditions. It's a very elegant rose.

Reply #11 of 19 posted 14 SEP 18 by Andrew from Dolton

Reply #12 of 19 posted 14 SEP 18 by HMF supporting member

Margaret Furness

"Cold wet" is relative. Renmark gets frosts but no snow, and doesn't get much rain. Mme Jules has been slow-growing compared with most of the Tea-Noisettes (I have it listed as HT-Noisette).	REPLY

Reply #13 of 19 posted 23 OCT 18 by Andrew from Dolton

Well, I've decided and just ordered 'Archduc Joseph', my first proper Tea rose to be grown in open ground in the garden. I already grow 'Hume's Blush Tea-Scented China' in a pot against the house.	REPLY

Reply #14 of 19 posted 23 OCT 18 by Marlorena

You should consider 'Mme. Antoine Mari', Andrew.... it thrives in my garden, is one of my very best roses of any class, and withstands anything my weather conditions here can throw at it.... a quite superlative rose...minimal foliage issues, no spray... of course in deepest Devon... who knows?...	REPLY

Reply #15 of 19 posted 23 OCT 18 by Andrew from Dolton

I would love to try it, and 'Dr Grill' from an historical point of view. But I am very poor this year and can not lavish money on Beale or Austin roses but the less expensive but less choice of Trevor White. 'Archduc Joseph' was I think the best they have. I've had some very good quality roses from Trevor White.	REPLY

Reply #16 of 19 posted 23 OCT 18 by Marlorena

Oh me too, they are always my first choice... that's where I got my 'Mme. A. Mari' from... maybe another time Andrew... I hope your Archduc Joseph does well for you, let us know how it goes...	REPLY

Reply #17 of 19 posted 23 OCT 18 by HMF supporting member

Margaret Furness

Difficult. I'm in favour of supporting the nurseries which supply old roses (which is not a profitable pastime). But in general, most Teas, Chinas and Noisettes strike readily from cuttings. I think it would be worth your while finding a heritage roses group in your area, both to become involved in plant exchange, and to find out what others have succeeded in growing.	REPLY

Reply #18 of 19 posted 23 OCT 18 by Andrew from Dolton

It's pathetic, we haven't even got a national roses society anymore. There is the Historic Roses Group, which do a lot of interesting work, but that's all we've got. For a medium size nursery Trevor White have an amazing range of plants but only a few Tea and Hybrid-Teas. I would totally recommend them to anyone. I have been watching many weird and wonderful ways of taking rose cuttings (including sticking them in a potato!) on YouTube I'm dying to try some new techniques out.

Reply #19 of 19 posted 23 OCT 18 by Marlorena

I recently tried the burrito method, and after 2 weeks in the shed I opened the packet and found the canes had calloused at the base, which is what they're supposed to do, so I put them outside in the ground... I expect they'll rot off now...

Margaret... I've grown some own roots here, China's do well and show lots of vigour, but I think with Tea and Noisette roses, in the main, we need rootstock to give them some oomph.. that's as I understand it... I wouldn't care to try roses like 'Maman Cochet' own root, I don't think it would ever got off the ground...so I might be wasting my time there...