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'Cherub' rose Reviews & Comments
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There is a 1930's comment saying 'Cherub' is thornless. The main listing says that the real 'Cherub' was lost after the 1950s so would I be correct to assume this description is of the real 'Cherub'? Is the rose now in commerce as 'Cherub' thorny? I have two small potted plants sourced from a friend near Hobart that are completely smooth. Her plant is an old very large plant but I am unsure of its origin. I checked the listing for 'Apple Blossom' and there is no reference to the thornlessness of it in the referecens section or the comments (though there is for 'Blush Rambler') and imagine it might be hard, though not impossible, to get thornlessness with a rugosa Mum.
If this variety is a seedling of 'Claire Jacquier'... where does the wichurana come in?
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Simon, I had a quick look yesterday at my climber (which came as 'Cherub') and the long canes are thornless, except for the top foot, where there were thorns. Sorry no time for a photo then. You need to read the references - from the bottom up - to gain an insight into this rose. It is a difficult one. Patricia
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Yep.. read them all.. a few times... still don't see the wich connection other than someone lumping it with that group... noted that in 1955 descriptions change from repeat flowering in autumn to once-flowering. I've not noted mine to rebloom down here but they are only small and in pots. Also around 1955 descriptions change from thornless to almost thornless. Mine did flower this season but I don't recall what the colour range was.
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Wich or multi? There is the possibility (so, so slight) that Hazlewood didn’t know exactly what a multiflora was. In his 1926 catalogue he put into his Climbing multiflora class, ‘Mlle. Cecile Brunner Cl.’, ‘Orleans Rose Cl.’, ‘Moonlight’, ‘Mrs. F. W. Flight’, Prosperity’, ‘Tausendschon’, and ‘Veilchenblau’.
It could be that the 1934 Patrick Grant comment was just re-reading an old Hazlewood catalogue But Dr. A. S. Thomas in 1950 definitely would have know what was a multiflora and what was a wich and he says ‘Cherub’ repeated lightly in autumn. Or did he too copy from past publications?
The main point for ‘Cherub’ being a multiflora was the 1930 U.S. reference where the rose, submitted by Hazlewood, gained a Silver Medal in Portland as a Multiflora. (But why did Hazlewood keep the rose in his Wich class for another eight years.) I’ll guess and say that many things slipped past busy nurserymen.
Repeating or Once flowering The 1938 ref lists Cherub with other “early Summer Climbers” such as ‘Lady Medallist’ and ‘Milkmaid’ and those two in my garden are mostly once flowering. I have uploaded a 1924 reference which says “It also flowers in autumn when although the flowers are not numerous, the colouring is superb”. I think that most once flowering roses could produce a few flowers in autumn in superb conditions and perhaps other authors took this reference too literally. Hazlewood in 1925 said it flowered in autumn.
Thorns or Thornless My plant has a few thorns, but I would call it thornless (or almost).
Is the Australian rose in commerce ‘Cherub’ or ‘Apple Blossom’ or ‘Blush Rambler’? The 1997 reference, p213 shows that Trevor Nottle and Susan Irvine found roses “purporting to be ‘Cherub”, But was it? Or was it Apple Blossom or Blush Rambler? They did not have the resource of HelpMefind in those early days to help them through the tangles, and even now, with HelpMeFind, the three roses seem very similar.
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Can I callous up some cuttings of the one I have here and send them to you? I think they need growing side-by-side.
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Sigh. I have three plants already Simon. However, send them over. I have one at the end of this garden behind the sick walnut/wisteria on the left - and I can put another behind the May bushes on the right. That would balance things up a bit and although they would be about 10 metres apart, I think that would be close enough to see any difference. You had better add a distinguishing "study name" to the package so that we know which plant we are talking about in years to come. .
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Patricia, I forgot to add the study name. It should have read "Huonville Cherub". I haven't spoken with the people from whom I received cuttings in a while but will do so soon to ask them where their clone came from.
This evening, whilst checking the seed bags, I noticed some of the OP 'Cherub' seeds have germinated. I'm hoping for some repeaters but won't get too excited just yet.
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Thanks. Noted "Huonville Cherub" in my records.
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