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'Lubra' rose Reviews & Comments
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Peter Cox says in "Australian Roses" that 'Lubra' "dislikes wet, humid conditions". This is easily explicated. Scores of tightly packed petals taking two weeks to open can easily rot on the stem in humid weather. Fitzhardinge's 'Lady Edgeworth David' is exactly the same; it's not unusual in autumn to see a candelabrum of 20 buds all fail to open. Fitzhardinge must have known this, since Warrawee in her day would often have had damp summers. But the trade off at other times is remarkable depth of texture and, at least for 'Lubra', scent. If the weather is damp, pick the roses for the house at the bud stage.
Anyone in Australia who would like to verify this can get budded rootstock from Kurinda Roses on 03 5623 6827.
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#1 of 18 posted
11 OCT 14 by
Kebun
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Spoke by phone to the folks at Kurinda this afternoon, Lubra will be available from July next year
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Dear Kebun, I hope Stan Nieuwesteeg coughs up Lubra much sooner than that. The Morwell Lubra is probably the only authentic plant left anywhere. We must get it replicated and into other collections like Werribee and Bacchus Marsh before it is too late. Ironically John Nieuwesteeg thinks it is a dull little rose. But it is a most elegant and stylish 1930s rose built on exactly the same lines as Lady Edgeworth David.
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#3 of 18 posted
11 OCT 14 by
Jane Z
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my plant many moons ago was such a poor doer that I never got the chance to form an opinion, positive or negative, before it turned up its toes. vaguely remember 1 scented bloom, but meh ...
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#4 of 18 posted
11 OCT 14 by
Kebun
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Totally in agreement with you, Eric.. beauty, after all, really is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I appreciate how pre-war roses like Lubra reflect the pre-war definition of how HT flowers should look like, with their simple and refined elegance compared to the blowsy, flamboyant shape of post-war HTs. Considering that Lubra is one of only three, surviving Fitzhardinge roses, it would be a travesty for this rose to be lost.
Just my two cents worth.. Peter
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Roughly actual size when you click on it.
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It may still be at Renmark (I mean an old plant, not the one I grew from a cutting): I'll check next time I visit. However I note that you thought my photos resembled yours. Many of the roses at the ABG were supplied by Ross Roses.
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Margaret, That would be most encouraging. We know that virtually all the Australian roses at Morwell came from Golden Vale, so a bit of triangulation would be informative. But let's say no one could prove the Morwell rose was Lubra. It would still be a very fine 1930s-style HT.
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Another comment; John N would never let a plant less than two years old out of his nursery, and I guess he brought Stan up to follow that protocol.
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I may regret this, but my curiosity is aroused. Apart from the buds, how does the bush itself handle the combination of heat and humidity? Is it naturally resistant to disease, or does it require constant spraying?
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Dear GMC, the Morwell bush today was five feet by three, carrying about seven big flowers, all mature, with a few black-spotty leaves near the base. Otherwise it looks very healthy. The bush dates back to the late nineties, so it is long lived, even in rotten soil (the Morwell garden was made out of tailings from road cuttings). You often see balling on the buds of Lady Edgeworth David at Bacchus Marsh. On Lubra, with very similar structure though with perhaps fewer petals, I have never seen buds or flowers balling in five years of visits.
Perhaps there's something special about the Morwell climate. We can't really compare because Lubra is now growing only there and in Renmark. Morwell has 25 inches of rain a year. Bacchus Marsh has 20. Fitzhardinge's Warrawee has monsoonal summers, cool winters and 40 inches a year.
You didn't ask me this, but I looked around for Oklahoma to see if Lubra's scent was as big. It is certainly as good.
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Thanks for the information. I hadn't heard of this rose before, and just read all the comments and references for it because it popped up in the recent posts listing today. It sounds like a fascinating but rather confusing thing, with varying reports on the behaviour of the flowers (balling or no balling), the scent (great or not much) and the vigour or otherwise of the bush itself, since you saw one go rampant in Melbourne, and the Morwell one seems fine, but other rose growers haven't been able to get the thing going at all.
I'm a bit intrigued, because it obviously likes some conditions, and is happy if it gets them (whatever they are) and has historical value too, not just a rare Australian-bred rose but as an example of a style which, while apparently very elegant, is now out of fashion.
And if the scent is as good as Oklahoma, that is very good indeed.
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Maybe someone saw Lubra go rampant in Melbourne, but it was not me. Fitzhardinge had an acre of the best, and best watered, soil in Sydney. The commonest complaint about her roses is that they are slow and mean growers. My experience of one plant is that Lubra is slow to flower but generous when it does. She had the time and money (gardeners !) to take a lot of trouble over her roses, and they respond to it. I hope to publish an article on this shortly.
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I assumed you had seen it, but I suppose you were referring to a report you had heard (Discussion id : 76-114):
"'Lubra' has been struggling to survive for years in the Victoria State Rose Garden. Suddenly the bush is a tall climber covered in new growth, leaves and fairly big flowers."
I found that amusing. Presumably it was languishing under the the best possible care (or so they thought) in the State Rose Garden. Then one day, for no apparent reason, the thing goes bonkers and decides it's party time.
If 'Lubra' just needs good soil and more water than usual, I could arrange that for an interesting specimen. If it needs an army of slaves constantly fussing over it, that's never going to happen.
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Dear GMC, I don't remember writing that about Lubra at Werribee, but I know what happened. Werribee thought it would be good, and a good play on the names, to plant Black Boy and Lubra together. It looked as if Lubra had taken off, but actually it had died of the competition while Black Boy took off.
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Just reading up some more, since intermittent downpours keep stopping me digging, and this rose is weird.
Ophelia is a a generally well-behaved and fairly durable sort of thing, as far as I can tell. Black Boy is well known to be a rampant monster and as tough as old boots (my mum's parents had one when she was a girl). Yet Lubra is supposedly rather frail, according to most modern reports.
On the other hand, most of the pre-1950 references (excluding catalogues which were trying to sell it) refer to Lubra as being vigorous in growth. Example from Australian Rose Annual, 1938:
"The plant is vigorous in growth, with healthy foliage, and produces freely long stemmed, richly fragrant blooms all through the season."
There is even this, from the sub-tropics (Queensland Garden Guide, 1950):
"Although the blooms of dark crimson are rather small, the plant is capable of producing these in masses and with very long stems. It is very fragrant and one of the best deep reds for a hot climate."
Then you have the Morwell example, which doesn't exactly seem frail either, and isn't being cosseted.
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Yes, yes and yes. Lubra at Morwell used to be four feet tall; now it's five. I learnt yesterday that it now receives six hours of dripped water a week in summer, plus infusions of Go-Go, which I take to mean Go-Go Juice. These are getting closer to the conditions at Warrawee in Fitzhardinge's day, which were monsoonal summers alternating with cold dry winters; 40 inches a year. Morwell's average is 28.
You hear of roses deteriorating in vigor. Lady Hillingdon is said to be one. Perhaps this applies to Lubra, but grower expectations have changed too—several times, away from the ideal that Lubra represents.
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#17 of 18 posted
19 JUN 15 by
Kebun
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Just got off the phone with Stan Nieuwesteeg, he has budded ALL the surviving Fitzhardinge roses (including Lubra) and they will be available potted by September (I made sure a specimen each of Lubra and Warrawee be put aside for me). Incidentally, Stan said his Lubra budstock was from the Morwell Lubra. And even your name, Eric, came up in conversation courtesy of Stan... in a good way of course lol!
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Dear Kebun,
I know you've been on the Fitzhardinge trail for a while. You deserve everything you've got. People all over the place are supposed to have Lubra, but the closer you get, the further away seems the reality. It's possible Stan has the only true Lubra left in his cuttings from Morwell.
I have Prudence from John and I'm desperate to see its first flower. It grew to ten feet in three months, huge canes.
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