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'A Shropshire Lad' rose Reviews & Comments
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This year for the first time, it is a bit affected by Powdery Mildew. (leaves and flower-stems)
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Jay-Jay: Did you have lots of rain this year? Rain is acidic, and when the pH goes down, more mildew. My peonies are planted under the rain-spout, they get really bad mildew in rainy fall. So I gave them Garden Lime (pH near 9), and much less mildew after that. Peonies prefer alkaline clay.
Mary Magdalene as own-root like it alkaline. It's clean until I dumped acid-fertilizer high in salt & plus sulfur, it broke out in mildew immediately. OWN-ROOT roses with dark green and glossy foliage like Pat Austin, A.Shopshire Lad, or Evelyn like it alkaline. With my soil pH near 8, I still give Evelyn lime (pH 9) during tons of rain. Rain is acidic at pH 5.6.
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#2 of 13 posted
17 JUN 16 by
 Jay-Jay
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No, less rain this year, in fact that few, that the grass was turning yellow and brown.
And I'm sorry, but I'm not such a believer in the only-alkaline story.
Some roses like it acidic, some neutral, some might prefer alkaline.... and some like it hot.
There are so many aspects, that might influence plants in general and roses too, that I don't want to jump to conclusions.
In my opinion, MOST (not all) of the roses love a fertile soil and lots of organic material. So that's "my guideline".
The weather I can't influence.
But my experience is, that on my soil roses do not react well on a gift of lime/Calcium. They get chlorotic leaves/chlorosis.
And in fact, I make the pH lower, by spraying Sulfur: Sulfur oxidizes and the rain will get acidic by it (sulfurous acid) on the leaves. Mildew and a lot of other fungal diseases do not like or withstand an acidic environment.
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What rootstock your roses are grafted on? I have one rose Comte de Chambord grafted on Multiflora-rootstock. It hates dry & hot & alkaline, and loves cool & acidic rain. My 2 Comte de Chambord as own-root are 100% clean, but the Comte grafted on multiflora blackspots in dry & hot weather .. but it was healthy in spring rain.
I'm doing to dig up that Comte grafted on multiflora and make the soil more loamy ... I did make soil acidic when I first planted it, but multiflora prefer both loamy and acidic. Also in dry & hot water folks use alkaline-tap water, which zap out potassium first, then trace elements so roses break out in fungal diseases & plus pale leaves. Alkaline tap water is the culprit, since it has calcium hydroxide (hydrated lime). Hydrated lime is nasty, it's unstable and binds with potassium & trace elements, so roses break out in fungal diseases, if they can't secret acid to utilize minerals in soil.
Hydrated lime added to tap-water is what raises soil pH. Garden lime is different, it's a stable form, and doesn't reach down to the root-zone as fast as hydrated lime in tap water. I use sulfate of potash (21% sulfur) and gypsum (17% sulfur) to fix my alkaline tap water (pH near 9) .. roses are healthy as long as I fix my tap-water. Folks use potassium chloride to soften hard-water, but potassium chloride is much higher in salt than sulfate of potash.
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#4 of 13 posted
17 JUN 16 by
Jay-Jay
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Almost no Multi-flora rootstock!
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IMO the "much higher in salt" line needs revision. Potassium sulphate is also a salt, as is calcium carbonate, and umpteen other things you'll find in the garden. I think what you mean is that using KaCl will result in excessive chlorine in the soil.
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#6 of 13 posted
18 JUN 16 by
Jay-Jay
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I do not use Potassium-sulfate, but micro-sulfur.
And no, what I mean is, that when I pour Calcium-carbonate in the garden, the leaves look like this (chlorosis):
Aaaah, Addicted to Caffeine... You wanted to correct the line about salt, that Straw-Chicago wrote...
In my mailbox, it looked as if it was a reply to my contribution.
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Jay_Jay: thank you for that picture of pale leaves. My soil is high in magnesium, so it zaps out the calcium. EarthCo. that tested my soil recommended gypsum, despite my soil pH at 7.7. Other people have high-calcium soil, so garden lime (calcium carbonate) doesn't help. Even the granular sulfur has calcium via gypsum. Then we have hydrated lime used to treat tap-water .. that's too much calcium.
In my garden, mildew and rust is very rare, which happened only when I dump acid-fertilizer high in salt. I did that 2 times and learned my lesson. Salt and acid is a great combo to induce mildew. My sister is in California, her tap water is higher in salt, plus less rain, so mildew is really bad in her garden.
Give-me-caffeine: Google salt-index of potassium chloride (muriate of potash), and you'll see salt-index of 120, versus 42 for sulfate of potash (potassium sulfate). Potassium chloride is a salt which I use during zone 5a winter to melt the ice that makes my side-walk slippery. Calcium carbonate is lowest in salt, only 4, gypsum has salt-index of 8.
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#8 of 13 posted
18 JUN 16 by
Jay-Jay
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You're welcome.
No granular sulfur, but almost pure fine sulfur (80%) to spray with.
And yes, I give the plants a little extra magnesia.
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Jay-Jay: Many people ask me in Organic Rose forum if they should use Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate). My answer is no, unless their soil-test recommends it. Magnesium is what makes soil sticky, and my heavy clay soil is very high in magnesium. Also magnesium is what raise soil pH, since it crystallize upon exposure to air. Garden lime has 20% calcium carbonate and 10% magnesium oxide. I tested the pH of calcium carbonate before, neutral in red-cabbage juice, but magnesium oxide shot up the pH to over 11.
My soil booklet stated that magnesium deficiency is very rare, only in sandy soil. Folks who use Epsom salt in clay only make soil harder through the crystallization and high pH of magnesium.
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"He agree with me that calcium carbonate is inert, it stays put where applied, and doesn't move down much. It's the hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide) in tap water which is unstable and binds with potassium, phosphorus, trace elements to make leaves pale."
But Jay-Jay said he was getting chlorosis from adding calcium carbonate, so it looks like there may be other factors involved.
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Ah ok. Hadn't heard of "salt index" before. It seems to be a very badly-named scale, since gypsum is as much a salt as potassium chloride is, and most people only think of the stuff you find on the dining table when someone says "salt".
The references to "salt index" all seem to be from the US or Canada, and I'm wondering if it's called something else in other countries.
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Potassium chloride with salt index of 120 is used to melt the ice in my zone 5a winter. Please don't put down gypsum unless you had already tasted it to see if it's as salty as potassium chloride, or had used both yourself. Gypsum is low salt, with salt-index of 8, and is used to de-salt saline soil. HMF didn't allow me to post link before, so I'll post the entire soil abstract: "Abstract : A leaching experiment using columns technique was carried out to evaluate the efficiency of gypsum, water hyacinth compost "WHC", rice straw compost "RSC" and their different combinations on reclamation of clay saline-sodic soils. Soils were collected from Sahl El-Hossinia, El-Sharkia Governorate, Egypt. Increase the rate of gypsum used leads to an increase in decrease salinity as well as sodicity. This study suggests that application of gypsum combined with WHC or RSC enhanced reclamation and caused more decreases in salinity as well as sodicity."
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I appreciate your enthusiasm and attention to detail, but you seem to have missed the point. :)
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