HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Member
Profile
PhotosFavoritesCommentsJournalCuttingsMember
Garden
Member
Listings
 
Kathy Strong
most recent 9 FEB SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 9 FEB 18 by Kathy Strong
Certified Roses website shows St. Tropez as a floribunda, not hybrid tea. See,http://certifiedrose.com/images/sttropez.pdf

Quote:
Fact Sheet
New from Certified Roses for 2018
St. Tropez
(cv. ORAsyda, Rose Alleyson) PPAF
Fragrant Apricot Orange Floribunda
Class: Floribunda
Plant Habit: Medium height, 3 to 4 feet
Growth Habit: Upright to rounded, bushy
Stem Length: Medium
Foliage Color: Medium green & glossy
Disease
Resistance: Very good
Flower Color: Lasting apricot orange
Bud Form: Turbinate
Flower Form: Fully double, ruffled
Flower Size: Large, 5-inch diameter
Petal Count: 30 to 35
Fragrance: Strong licorice candy
Parentage: Easy Going x Top Notch
Hybridizer: Rosaraies Orard
Introducer: Certified Roses
Selling Points:
• What a color! The scrumptiously luscious almost-edible apricot-orange blossoms
redolent with the perfume of sweet anise can easily conjure up dreams of a cool
tropical cocktail and warm sandy beaches.
• Loads of full ruffled flowers adorn this beautiful bushy plant. Its attractive rounded
habit is clothed with an abundance of glossy green clean leaves, perfect for the
poolside, patio or landscape.
REPLY
Reply #1 of 24 posted 16 FEB 18 by Patricia Routley
Thank you Kathy, Do you think it is a floribunda, or a hybrid tea?
REPLY
Reply #2 of 24 posted 16 FEB 18 by Kathy Strong
It's a florrie.
REPLY
Reply #3 of 24 posted 16 FEB 18 by Patricia Routley
The photos all seem to show the single blooms of a hybrid tea, and not the clustering of a floribunda.
REPLY
Reply #4 of 24 posted 16 FEB 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Its three grandparents are all floribundas.
REPLY
Reply #5 of 24 posted 16 FEB 18 by Patricia Routley
As were its parents. I'll add Floribunda. Justin, are you watching/listening.
REPLY
Reply #6 of 24 posted 16 FEB 18 by Andrew from Dolton
But. it does look very much like a hybrid-tea
REPLY
Reply #7 of 24 posted 16 FEB 18 by Kathy Strong
Well, I just got it as a bareroot, so I haven't seen it bloom yet, but Certified, the introducer, puts a label on each plant that says florrie.
REPLY
Reply #8 of 24 posted 16 FEB 18 by Margaret Furness
A wandering bee, perhaps?
REPLY
Reply #9 of 24 posted 16 FEB 18 by Patricia Routley
Oh dear. I thought you knew the rose well. Just because someone else says it was "something'" doesn't mean we have to accept it when we can see it might be "something else". HelpMeFind is all about guiding gardeners towards the truth. The breeder themselves list it as "Grandes fleurs". Isn't that a hybrid tea?
REPLY
Reply #10 of 24 posted 17 FEB 18 by Kathy Strong
I disagree. The purpose of listing it as a hybrid tea or florrie should be consistent across the databases, and having one database, such as HMF, exercise its "independent judgment" should be avoided. If the seller says it's a florrie, then it is. Period. And any listing here as a hybrid tea would just plain be in error, no matter what HMF's independent judgment is.
REPLY
Reply #11 of 24 posted 17 FEB 18 by Andrew from Dolton
I have to say I disagree with the above statement. The rose should be described in its profile as what it ACTUALLY is and not whatever tradesmen decide they would like to market it as. This is exactly why so many varieties get muddled and lost. This is exactly why HMF is so important, precisely because its judgement is independent.

There are two forth generation roses that are hybrid-teas but all other descendants are floribundas. The breeder's description of "Grandes fleurs", doesn't this translate to grandiflora? Just to throw a spanner in the works. Even so I would still expect it to still have cluster flowers as well as single stems. It would be very interesting to see what other members are growing as 'St Tropez'.
REPLY
Reply #12 of 24 posted 17 FEB 18 by Kathy Strong
One of the problems that occurs when HMF reassigns a rose's classification to something more of HMF's liking is that for American rose shows, you must correctly exhibit a rose in its properly assigned class. This rose would be disqualified if exhibited in the "hybrid tea" class (which class is combined with grandifloras, but not floribundas over here). And since there is essentially a continuum of rose characteristics, with many roses "correct" class being quite debatable -- many, if not most, roses show some characteristics of one class and other characteristics in another -- the default position, in my opinion, has to be the one which the entity selling the rose has chosen. If HMF must reassign roses to some other class than the seller has assigned to it, at the very least there should be a notification that it has done so on the homepage for that rose.
REPLY
Reply #13 of 24 posted 17 FEB 18 by Andrew from Dolton
I can understand it must be very frustrating. If as Patricia states "The breeder themselves list it as "Grandes fleurs"", this must indicate what type the rose is. I am ashamed to say that my French beyond what I can do on translating websites is very little. What is the French for Floribunda, Grandiflora and Hybrid-Tea? If the rose is classed as a Grandiflora then, under your system, it must be classed with the Hybrid-Teas. Even though it is very clear from its linage that it is definitely a Floribunda. And its growth is very like a Hybrid-Tea.
I am way over my depth here!
REPLY
Reply #15 of 24 posted 17 FEB 18 by Marlorena
Mons. Orard also calls it a Hybrid Tea. This is from his website..

Souvent appelés Hybrides de Thé, ces rosiers sont le plus souvent uniflores (une fleur par tige)et poussent à environ 1.00 m de hauteur.

Often called Tea Hybrids, these roses are most often uniflorus (one flower per stem)
and grow to about 1.00 m in height.

Grande Fleurs = Hybrid Tea...
REPLY
Reply #18 of 24 posted 27 MAR 19 by Philip_ATX
Orard describes this rose as a hybrid tea:
Rosier ROSE ALLEYSON ®
Ora 295-08 (ORARD)
Type technique : Grandes fleurs

Les rosiers à grandes fleurs:
Souvent appelés Hybrides de Thé, ces rosiers sont le plus souvent uniflores (une fleur par tige)et poussent à environ 1.00 m de hauteur. Les fleurs bien turbinées possèdent généralement entre 30 et 60 pétales. Les variétés proposées sont toutes remontantes. Plantations tous les 45/50 cm, pour massifs et fleurs coupées de jardin.

The habit and breeder description appear to contrast with Certified's label. Mind you, "le plus souvent..." notwithstanding, in Photo Id: 310687 one *can* see a few sprays of flowers.
REPLY
Reply #16 of 24 posted 17 FEB 18 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I just made an inquiry to the grower. We'll get to the bottom of this.
REPLY
Reply #17 of 24 posted 12 OCT 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Hello Robert,

Did you ever get a response from the grower as to how this rose should be classified?

Regards, Andrew.
REPLY
Reply #14 of 24 posted 17 FEB 18 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I'm going to chime in here. I agree with Kathy.

All references have traditionally adhered to the official classification made by the breeder and the recording body.

In my opinion HMF and it's users would be best served by following suit.

Any opinions expressed by growers can be shared in the comments section.

Classification of roses is a messy business and one that no doubt will continue to evolve over time.

Best wishes, Robert
REPLY
Reply #19 of 24 posted 27 MAR 19 by Philip_ATX
The breeder, Orard, says it is a Hybrid Tea (Type technique : Grandes fleurs), as shown above. It is the grower, Certified -- presumably the sole distributor stateside, who has employed the floribunda label. So I'm not sure where that leaves a rose exhibitor.
REPLY
Reply #20 of 24 posted 27 MAR 19 by Marlorena
I said that a year ago... see reply #15 above... surely it's down to the breeder how a rose is designated..
REPLY
Reply #21 of 24 posted 7 JUN 20 by Michael Garhart
Plant architecture and bloom size are similar to its grandparent, Remember Me, which would be considered a grandiflora had it been bred in America. But it was not. It has broader petals and far few prickles than Remember Me, which is nice.
REPLY
Reply #22 of 24 posted 3 FEB by Philip_ATX
Would the matter be resolved with a description to the effect of "floribunda habit -- Marketed as a hybrid tea"?
REPLY
Reply #23 of 24 posted 4 FEB by Michael Garhart
I dunno. It is confusing because the categorical systems are not congruent, and what matters is that the purchaser understands what they are purchasing. In a very minor way, it matters for exhibition, but exhibitors make up a minority of rosarians, and they tend to use their purchasing power for the same set of roses. A classic example would be a purchase order for 20 plants of 'Gemini'.
REPLY
Reply #24 of 24 posted 9 FEB by Philip_ATX
Thanks. I just broke down and bought the thing as a big box bare root, and if the thing survives the hacked, stacked, and sacked procedure, I might eventually be able to provide commentary beyond this "is it or ain't it a florrie" thread.
REPLY
most recent 26 JAN SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 31 MAY 18 by Hamanasu
In Southeast England (cool and mild, zone 8) this rose smells very much like The Doctor and similar to New Zealand (which I think is its grandparent, via Meredith/Chris Beardshaw). It’s a strong but very mellow rose scent, without the slightest touch of tanginess/sharpness/fruitiness, sweet and rich, almost creamy/buttery. There’s no citrus in it at all, not even a hint. The plant has a branching (not bushy) habit, which I quite like. The first bloom this year has been lasting for several days, opening very slowly.
REPLY
Reply #1 of 3 posted 2 JUN 18 by Kathy Strong
To my nose, Sugar Moon is the only rose that smells like Ponds cold cream. Reminds me of my late granny whenever I get a noseful.
REPLY
Reply #2 of 3 posted 3 JUN 18 by Hamanasu
I’ve never smelt Ponds cream, but I definitely agree that there’s something distinctly like a cosmetic about the scent of sugar moon!
REPLY
Reply #3 of 3 posted 26 JAN by OpineOnline
Totally smells like Ponds Cold cream to me too, not my favorite.
REPLY
most recent 26 JAN HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 26 JAN by Kathy Strong
Rose Listing Omission

Time after time

Aka WEKaltbeba.

https://www.brecks.com/product/time-after-time-floribunda-rose
REPLY
Reply #1 of 1 posted 26 JAN by jedmar
All three added, thank you!
REPLY
most recent 26 JAN HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 26 JAN by Kathy Strong
Rose Listing Omission

Angelic Veil

Aka WEKselyan

https://www.brecks.com/product/angelic-veil-hybrid-tea-rose

Now, isn’t that a horrid name!
REPLY
Reply #1 of 1 posted 26 JAN by Lee H.
Not even in the same league as Happy Butt, or BougainFeelYa. :-(
REPLY
© 2024 HelpMeFind.com