HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 3 days ago SHOW ALL
Initial post 19 AUG 19 by styrax
How is blackspot resistance for this rose on the East Coast of the US?
Reply #1 of 16 posted 25 OCT by Elestrial's Garden
It's excellent - I don't spray and it doesn't have any black spot. 6b Pennsylvania here
Reply #2 of 16 posted 10 days ago by steve fritz
It contracts blackpot in my eastern North Carolina garden unless I spray regularly. It is robust and tries to grow through it. A powerhouse flower producer with great scent. The best white on the market.
Reply #3 of 16 posted 6 days ago by MADActuary
One could argue with that Steve. Have you tried Clouds of Glory and Soft Whisper ((not to mention Moonstone, Marlon's Day and Randy Scott)? I prefer these two over PJPII and I grow two bushes of each. COG is not quite as fragrant but grows better with longer, straighter stems and gives me more good blooms. Soft Whisper is equal in fragrance and a sturdy upright grower. The other three are really good exhibition varieties. I like PJPII but can't agree it's the best white on the market.
Reply #4 of 16 posted 6 days ago by steve fritz
I also own Soft Whisper. It is more susceptible to disease than JPII and not as fragtrant. Nor does it produce near the number of blooms. Nor is it white. And my comment concered John Paul II being the best white rose.

I am not familar with Clouds of Glory. It may be wonderful. But I am getting rid of my Soft Whisper this year and hanging on to my John Paul II.

It is pollen and seed fertile, but does both reluctantly. Soft Whisper is better at setting seeds than JPII.

Of course, we can only speak from limited experience and from our own gardens.
Reply #5 of 16 posted 6 days ago by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Steve, have you grown 'Honor'?

If so, how would you rate it?

One of my all time favorite whites is 'Pascali'.

Thanks, Robert
Reply #6 of 16 posted 6 days ago by steve fritz
Yes, I grew honor years ago, along with Pascali.

I loved Pascali more ...

But I think neither of them can compete with the combined qualities of Pope John Paul II.

I may have an exceptional plant, but my JPII produces huge numbers of near perfect, fragrant flowers. And my climate is often drought ridden with 95 degree heat. The flowers hardly shrink in size or number. It is a very impressive plant. I am trying to work a line breeding it with ICECAP. Hoping to eventually produce something close to JPII with disease resistance.

Imagine a disease free 'Iceberg' with powerful fragrance! We can dream...
Reply #7 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I've never grown JPII

I do grow it's seed parent, Secret, which I like

I told Certified Roses they were wasting their time looking for a better white flori, because Iceberg will always outsell all other white floris because it's non-pat, easy to propagate and sold cheaply everywhere.

As for more recent fragrant white floris, I tried 'Bolero'. I hated it and tossed it out.
Reply #8 of 16 posted 5 days ago by steve fritz
I see by all your comments that you are a dedicated rosarian.

You must try JPII. I beleive it will be "THE WHITE ROSE" of this generation.
Reply #9 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Thanks for your input Steve.

I've been growing/breeding roses for some time. HT's are not an emphasis for me.

As I already have 'Secret' established I may trying playing with that a bit.

Space and time are always at a premium.

Best Wishes, Robert
Reply #10 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Kathy Strong
Haha, we all have strong opinions don’t we?? I will chime in for Honor, I still like it. Second best would be Sugar Moon and then PJP II. For me it is the weird bulbous shape of PJP II that puts it in third. I have grown all of the discussed hybrid teas. For best white florrie, I abhor iceberg and like Moondance, Grand Prize and Easy Spirit (the best) and Pillow fight.
Reply #11 of 16 posted 5 days ago by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Hi Kathy, I'm guessing growing conditions account for many differences in opinion.

Yes, I still like Honor too. I think it's better for cutting than some others.

I also grow, and like, 'Easy Spirit'.

I hadn't considered, Moondance, Sugar Moon.

Now they are on my radar.

Thank you!
Reply #12 of 16 posted 4 days ago by Michael Garhart
The best white HT imo is 'Royal Philharmonic', but its not as fragrant. It's a real do'er, and it stays in its lane, unlike some HTs that grow whatever dimensions they please.

'Renaissance' is my favorite sniffer, but its very informal and has a blush to it. It's a heavy producer when mature. A love it and leave it type, which is preferable.

I am sure a lot of people like the white sport of 'Secret'.

Meilland has a white fragrant HT popular in Europe that I have yet to see. White Perfumella. Unsure how decent it is in North America. Etsy sells a similar 'Wedding Road', which is another Yves Piaget type like White Perfumella. They may or may not be the same rose or sisters. Its hard to tell with Etsy sourcing sometimes, but it seems to be a very popular white sniffer HT there.

Anyway, a lot to select from.
Reply #13 of 16 posted 4 days ago by steve fritz
My JPII is super robust. It's first flish of blooms are often a bit bulbous and overpacked with petals.

The individual flowers that come later are more perfect.

What distinguishes any rose from all other flowers is its fragrance.

A rose without fragrance is only half a rose.

And a rose with super fragrance (like JPII) is a rose and a half.
Reply #14 of 16 posted 4 days ago by MADActuary
Steve - it sounds like you have a super plant of PJPii - more power to you!. I have what I believe is a Super Plant of Dolly Parton. I have tow bushes of Pope John Paul II. Both from Palatine so both on multiflora rootstock. Both are good and I will not be replacing them anytime soon. I just have a few other whites that I like better.
Reply #15 of 16 posted 4 days ago by steve fritz
You are probably right.

I just lucked into a super-robust graft & rootstock of JPII. I think I got it from Palatine also.

However, my favorite commercial rose (at theast for this week) is Pinkerbell.

It is also robust, needs little or no spraying and gets pretty flowers.

There are too few of them for the size of the plant and they are a bit small and need more fragrance,
but it is fertile as both a seed and pollen parent and its hardiness cannot be overlooked.

I say "commerical rose" because I also breed roses and have developed a few that I think are stellar.

I have not yet tried to find a distributor for them. But at my age, I can't wait around too
much longer.
Reply #16 of 16 posted 3 days ago by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I've got some on the market. Getting your foot in the door takes at least several years, timing, and luck.

After you're in with a grower it gets easier, but even then the competition is overwhelming. We are competing with literally dozens of world class entities.

A stellar rose in one climate may not be stellar elsewhere.

Some very mediocre roses make it to market and other excellent ones are never offered. There are myriads of reasons why.

I also like 'Pinkerbelle'. I've heard some clones get several feet tall. Mine has always stayed in the 2' range, and yes, it has good fertility
most recent 10 JUN SHOW ALL
Initial post 29 MAY by ParisRoseLady
Does anyone know about the vase life of the blooms, ie whether Secret makes a good cut flower?
Reply #1 of 1 posted 10 JUN by MADActuary
Bred from Pristine, so count on a short vase life. It does not last very long on the bush either
most recent 24 MAY SHOW ALL
Initial post 15 MAY by HippyHopRoses
Buyer Beware on this vendor - they recently lost an entire crop of roses and failed to tell customers from the time they lost it until they were suppose to be shipping things when it came out. They've failed to return people money who were requesting refunds. They've failed to communicate with said customers and they failed to even have proper business insurance in place in case of said crop failure.. You can find more information by googling garden roses llc -

I would bewary and uber cautious when dealing with this company based on the misdeeds and unfortunate circumstances that are currently playing out with them not willing to give people back the money they should of had in trust for presales. They instead blew the money on everything but what it should've been held to pay for. The owners of this outfit have criminal historys and it looks like they haven't actually learned a life lesson from that either.
Reply #1 of 3 posted 16 MAY by Nastarana
"The owners of this outfit have criminal historys"(sic) You are aware that that remark is, as it stands, a libelous statement?

I also note you have not been heard from on this forum before, except for one post in which you were looking for a certain rose in England. Speaking of things not adding up...

It looks to me like the nursery owners got in over their heads and I hope for their sakes and ours that they do find their feet soon.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 16 MAY by Amy E
Contact your bank or credit card company and tell them that you have not received what you paid for. Tell them you want a "charge back".
Good luck and hope it works out.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 24 MAY by MADActuary
Sounds like you have a considerable axe to grind. I think you are being very harsh on a start-up operation. The proprietor - Nate Fisher - was a "Rising Star" recipient in 2021 from the American Rose Society. I'll bet he will make things right here in the end.
most recent 24 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 3 OCT 20 by sam w
This rose regularly turns up in the springtime stacks of bodybag roses at the local stores. I bought one once and, to my surprise, it thrived in spite of its inauspicious beginnings. The next year I had the same experience and after a year off I bought a third one this way and it also prospers.
All of which leads me to say that while 90% of the roses sold in those awful little plastic bags full of wet bark don't do very well, this instead is one of the handful that is actually worth the gamble.
Reply #1 of 6 posted 16 APR by Michael Garhart
It helps to remove the garbage filler they put in those bags. Sometimes they will cause a fungal infection in the root zone. Such as dry rot.

Always inspect the roots and nip off any decay or where they are broken so those body bag roses have a fighting chance.
Reply #2 of 6 posted 18 APR by MADActuary
If you want a good Red Masterpiece you can get a bareroot #1 grade from Regan Nursery. I have one and it's thriving. Very underrated rose in that it is rated 6.9 in ARS Handbook. It's much better than that in my garden (Zone 5b, Chicago area). Hardy through two winters now.
Reply #3 of 6 posted 21 APR by Michael Garhart
ARS ratings before 2000 are really ... suspect... because most of it was through the eyes of exhibitors. For sniffy reds, I prefer Firefighter and Claret. I think Red Masterpiece was a good improvement on resolving some of Chrysler Imperial's issues and creating a decent red sniffer for the garden.
Reply #4 of 6 posted 22 APR by MADActuary
I have had trouble getting an own root Chrysler Imperial to grow. So trying one grafted on Dr. Huey this year.
Reply #5 of 6 posted 23 APR by Lee H.
Madactuary, I also have an own root C.I. that did poorly, until I moved it from a spot getting maybe 8 hours of sun, to one that is sunny from dawn until dusk. That made all the difference.
Reply #6 of 6 posted 24 APR by MADActuary
That's great to hear Lee. But I don't have a spot for dawn until dusk. But where my own root CI is, gets plenty of sunshine - plus plants surrounding it have been thriving. I'll bet my new budded Chrysler Imperial (to be planted adjacent to the existing CI) will grow circles around the own root plant. And although I complain about the own root plant, it has been doing better each growing season. Maybe 2024 is the year it will leap!
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