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'Riccordo di Fernando Scarlatti' rose Reviews & Comments
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There are a few elements that points to Attilio Ragionieri as breeder of this rose. 1) Ferdinando Scarlatti and Attilio Ragionieri were working in the same period in Florence and were "acquainted" and it would be right for him to baptize a unnamed rose with the name of his dead friend; 2) this rose is, strangerly enough for the period, a HP; 3) in Costa azzurra agricola floreale 1930 page 314 Attilio Ragionieri wrote "Il Dr. A. Ragionieri ha fecondato a Castello (Firenze), i fiori di R. gigantea col polline di alcune delle più belle varietà del commercio (1). … Dall’incrocio con la var. Prince Camille de Rohen, ottenne una pianta vigorosa, che ha cominciato a fiorire abbastanza presto: i suoi fiori ben doppi, molto grandi, a lunghissimi petali, hanno il colore di quelli della varietà Ulrich Brunner e sono molto odorosi" (translation Attilio Ragionieri in Castello (Florence) bred flowers of R. gigantea with pollen of some well known varieties (ref 1). The cross with Prince Camille de Rohan gave a vigorous plant, that started rather early to bloom: the flowers are well double, very large with very long petals, the colour is similar to Ulrich Brunner and are very odorous); 4) the reference 1 quotes a 1926 article by Ragionieri (I did not find it jet).; 5) Prince Camille de Rohan is a HP with "the right colour" ... Not one prove but certainly many many hints ...
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This theory (Ragionieri being the breeder) has a lot going for it. Dr. Attilio Ragionieri, a medical doctor, hybridized a wide range of plants for fun; he died suddenly the morning of October 11, 1933. I see a snippet in Costa Azzurra Agricola Floreale of 1932 (p. 21) stating "Attilio Ragionieri Il premio di Roma per le rose" ("Attilio Ragionieri the Rome prize for roses," presumably meaning he was awarded said prize) which, frustratingly, I don't seem to be able to find the expanded verson of; but at the least it confirms that Ragionieri was involved with roses. Meantime, the firm of Ferdinando Scarlatti was active in Florence (3–5 Via Giovanni Berchet) and, for some period, also in Rome (149 Corso Umberto 1), during these early decades of the 20th century, Scarlatti himself still being alive at least into the mid-1920s. I don't seem to be able to find a death-date for Scarlatti, which would (obviously) assist in fine-tuning the date of the rose; the "ca. 1925" which has been attached to this rose has a good chance of being quite accurate. I post this hoping that it will help others find further pertinent information.
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The correct spelling is 'Ricordo ...' etc. I know this seems pedantic but when I tried at first looking it up on hmf I couldn't find it because I was spelling it correctly. I don't know how Jaeger's Rosenlexicon spells it; the GroenlooF site spells it with two "c" and, in consequence, at Sangerhausen the spelling error is repeated (as with all other varieties beginning with Ricordo.
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#1 of 8 posted
15 DEC 17 by
 jedmar
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Rosenlexikon spells it with cc, Sangerhausen and Groenloof follow Jäger. We can add 'Ricordo...' if there is a reference with one c only. Yes, correct spelling of the word is 'Ricordo' but we have to follow references, too.
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I understand that, but at present hmf does not recognise the correct spelling at all - as if such a rose didn't exist. Sangerhausen lists several other roses whose names begin with the same word as 'Riccordo...' rather than 'Ricordo...'. The trouble is that such errors begin to have a life of their on; the result of this is that looking, for instance, for 'Ricordo de Giosue' Carducci' in the index you would conclude wrongly that they don't have it.
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I can't read/speak any Italian either, but I see that Brent Dickerson (The Old Rose Adventurer, p447) notes:
Ricordo di Geo Chavez [Translation: "In Memory of Geo Chavez".]
Ricordo di Giosue Carducci ('Souvenir de Giosue Carducci') [Translation: "In Memory of Giosue Carducci".]
Might Recordo be something like.... a record... of the man?
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Ricordo = memory = (in rose parlance) souvenir (Fr.) = Andenken (German)
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Ricordo = memory = (in rose parlance) souvenir (Fr.) = Andenken (German)
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I remember looking up emleke (sorry, can't do the accent on the middle e) because it occurs in the name of many Hungarian-bred roses. Google translate put it as Memories.
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#7 of 8 posted
17 DEC 17 by
jedmar
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That is a sufficient base, I suppose. This semms to be the only rose where the "Ricordo" spelling was missing; so be it.
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#8 of 8 posted
22 DEC 17 by
Cà Berta
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By the way .. the true name of the horticulturist active in Florence in late '800 and early '900 was Ferdinando Scarlatti ..
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