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'Argosy' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 82-526
most recent 3 NOV HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 16 JAN 15 by Patricia Routley
I have a superb rose that came to me as an Alister Clark rose - 'Argosy'. But the original 'Argosy' was fuchsia pink or salmon flushed pink - and my rose is a purpling crimson with nothing salmon about it at all. I am very grateful to the man who put it on multiflora rootstock and sent it to me as it is truly beautiful. It came originally from Rustons. Photos are in the file.
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Reply #1 of 9 posted 16 JAN 15 by Jane Z
Patricia, your *Argosy* looks remarkably similar in several respects to "Florence Hinds" of Rookwood - leaflet shape & colour, bloom structure, bud shape & silver tones of sepals (at bud stage) etc etc ...
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Reply #2 of 9 posted 17 JAN 15 by Patricia Routley
Thank you Jane. I feel that my rose which came as 'Argosy' has much longer stems than "Florence Hinds". And I see more red tones in "florence Hinds" than my very deep pink, purpling rose. Now, if there was a red 'Dame Edith Helen'..........
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Reply #3 of 9 posted 17 JAN 15 by Jane Z
ah, Florence's weakness, her rather short stems ... otherwise just based on the images they have many similarities it seems
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Reply #4 of 9 posted 17 JAN 15 by Eric Timewell
This rose in the photos look very much like the so-called 'Mrs RC Bell' I was sold by Mistydowns last year (see photos for Mrs RC Bell). Very double, short stem, crimson turning blue, tea scent not strong but durable.
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Reply #5 of 9 posted 18 JAN 15 by Patricia Routley
The receptacle seems the same shape in both roses.
The pedicel of to so-called 'Mrs. R. C. Bell' is green, whereas "came as Argosy" is reddish.
I would say "came as Argosy" has long stems, whereas you say the so-called 'Mrs. R. C. Bell' has short stems.
I have added more photos of my rose. Would you mind having a look please.
I believe Cree and Bruce Treloar both know or grow the same rose as I grow.
It has absolutely no salmon colouring at all, so it is certainly not the original 'Argosy'. If we can't solve it, I might have to move my photos out into a file of its own.
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Reply #6 of 9 posted 18 JAN 15 by Eric Timewell
Photo of a leaflet of the pseudo-Mrs RC Bell supplied. Looks exactly like Patricia's pseudo-Argosy. The pedicel is exactly two inches long, whether that counts as short or long I don't know. It has not a skerrick of red on it. The present bloom is very double and very symmetrical, just under three inches across. "Purpling crimson" is a good description.
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Reply #7 of 9 posted 3 NOV by Patricia Routley
Eric’s 15 Mar 2014 photo of ‘Lubra’s puffy petals is reminding me very much of the rose which came to me as ‘Argosy’.
Due to the different colour of my rose and ‘Argosy’ my rose is certainly not ‘Argosy’. I feel that it may be ‘Lubra’ and intend to move my photos out of ‘Argosy’ and into ‘Lubra’. Any comment before I do?
(Interestingly both ‘Argosy’ (Clark) and ‘Lubra’ (Fitzhardinge) were both bred in 1938.)
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Reply #8 of 9 posted 3 NOV by HubertG
Patricia, I did grow 'Argosy' for a brief time several years back, but it never made it out of its pot and eventually died. I bought it from a Sydney grower (I can't remember the name right now) but he assured me that it was correct and from a "named specimen" although I never pressed him for details at the time. Some observations that I remember are; - that it was exactly like your photos from several years back which are the deep pink colour with buds and leaves identical to yours. I never saw mine approaching red. I remembered the allusion to 'Lorraine Lee' when I bought it but could see no obvious physical similarity to that rose. However one thing I observed was that it never set any hips despite having normal looking stigma and despite my persistent attempts at pollinating it, and I decided it might have been a triploid and possibly was a Tea x HT after all, or something similar. It's description as fuchsia in the early references puzzled me a little because it was not quite what I would have called fuchsia, but of course colours are objective especially over time.

So, at the time I grew it I did have some doubts as to whether it was correct, but in time I came to the conclusion that it probably was truly 'Argosy' mainly because it seemed to be such random a rose to be reintroduced without any good reason, and also because of its presumed odd ploidy matching something Clark might have experimented with.

Patricia, I guess what I'm saying is that the rose I grew as 'Argosy' appears to be exactly the same as yours, and that I wouldn't discount it as something else at this point. Does yours ever set hips?
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Reply #9 of 9 posted 3 NOV by Patricia Routley
I don’t think it does set hips as a rule. But there is one photo of a couple of hips photographed on 6 May 2018. I hope to remember to put a tag on the bush not to deadhead the current blooms. Coincidentally I planted ‘Lorraine Lee’ only a few metres from the rose in question and they are chalk and cheese.
Thank you for your thoughts HubertG. I will leave things as they are for the moment.
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