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Most beautiful blue cluster ever pictured !! I love blue-color roses, but alas, blue is from multiflora-lineage, which prefers rainy/acidic/loamy soil. I have "Blue Mist" but it's pinkish in my alkaline clay.
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I grew 'Russelliana' on very chalky soil and it did not do too bad, suffering sometimes for dryness rather than want of acidity.
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Andrew: appreciate our random-talk, I learn lots from you. Thanks. I look up "chalky soil" on RHS website, they stated "Light chalky soils are:
•Often full of stones
•Can be severely dry in summer
•Often poor in nutrients as both manganese and iron can be “locked up” in the soil so that they become unavailable to plants
•Shallow and light (but easier to cultivate because of their weight and looser construction than “heavy” clay." RHS.
I have heavy & sticky & dense clay (high in magnesium & pH 7.7), versus chalky soil is loose, loamy (high in calcium). Water doesn't drain well from my heavy clay, so I have manganese deficiency. Multiflora with thin & hairy-cluster-root hates my dense & sticky & heavy clay. But thick & chunky & woody root of French Meilland or Austin roses like my heavy clay. I wonder what rose-varieties thrive at RHS Garden Rosemoor and Hyde Hall? Below is from RHS website:
"Where to see clay soils:
•RHS Garden Rosemoor has a very sticky clay soil, whose management is not helped by the high rainfall in Devon
•RHS Garden Hyde Hall has a heavy clay soil, but the low rainfall in Essex makes handling this soil very much easier than in Devon." https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/Profile?pid=620
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Sorry, I should have written alkali and not chalk. In the south of England, below London, along the coast a ridge of hills run for about 100 miles. They are made of pure chak, calcium carbonate or CaCO₃. Known as The South Downs they grow a range of flora richer than any other part of the United Kingdom. I grew 'Russelliana' in a garden that was right up against these hills, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_Farmhouse), Like you read on the RHS website it was very porous and full of pieces of chalk, flint too, a traditional building material in chalk/lime areas. 'Russelliana' suffered due to the lack of moisture rather than soil PH. The soil on The Downs themselves is little more than 10cm deep. Rosa canina is abundant here, so is Rosa rubiginosa and Rosa agrestis. It is not unusual to see these roses looking a bit chlorotic by the end of the season.
I grew 'Russelliana' nomadically, as I moved around in my younger years working for various employers, I would take a cutting with me each time I moved, so I got to see it in a wide range of conditions. It grew tolerably well on my father's very heavy neutral clay as well
Plants grown on chalky soils with ornamental fruits and berries ripen to a stronger brighter colour than plants on acid soils.
I have written more about 'Russelliana' in my Journal under the heading Lady Beeching's Rose.
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Just saw your reply: I learned so much from RHS website, thanks to you. I made a BIG MISTAKE of working in my clay when it's wet (RHS said NOT to).
Looked up RHS garden Rosemoor on HMF and found only a few roses listed: "Falstaff, Goldfinch, Malvern Hills, Rambling Rector, Reve d'Or, The Fairy, and W.S. 2000." Yes, W.S. 2000 blooms well & healthy as own-root in my heavy & wet clay. Looked up RHS garden Hyde Hall on HMF and found only one rose listed: Winchester Cathedral. (last updated in 2013).
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I was a student at Wisley in the mid-1980's. Their soil is acidic sand, particularly bad for roses! I was lucky enough to meet Graham Stuart Thomas on several occasions, and invited to his garden. I now live only 10km from Rosemoor, where like me half their roses are just a mass of blackspot.
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Just out of interest Straw, do you have native or naturalised roses growing wild in your area?
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Thank you for that gorgeous pic. of South Downs in England. We don't have any native roses in Chicagoland heavy & alkaline clay, but while growing up in Michigan (acidic to neutral heavy clay) ... I saw a single-petal pink rose, growing wild and fell in love with its intense perfume. Saw that rose every spring while walking to high school ... I was 14 back then.
You are right about clay (high in calcium & magnesium & potassium) help the deep colors in roses and in fruits. My neighbor filled her raised bed with loamy soil (mostly sand), and she complained that her tomato could not turn red in full-sun ... but my tomatoes are deep red in partial shade !! High pH magnesium is essential for photosynthesis, and my clay is exceedingly high in magnesium (helps with the deep yellow color in roses). My clay also grows very sweet peaches, we have lots of dolomitic (magnesium & calcium) grayish rocks, and limestone yellowish rocks below black sticky clay.
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Yes I saw your peach tree AND peaches with great evvy! It rather makes a mockery of the zoning system, because I could never grow peaches because my garden is too cold. Even though you a zone 5 and I zone 7 my summer temperatures would either mean a very sheltered south facing wall or green house.
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Andrew: I'm having central-air on 24/7, so hot & humid in summer. Our electricity runs over $100 per month. At least you have wonderful sleep with your cool & temperate climate. Some nights it gets so hot upstairs, even with central-air & ceiling fan & extra fan ... I take melatonin to lower my body-temp, so I can sleep. Just got poked by Christopher Marlowe (I mulched that with grass-clippings) .. you are blessed with multiflora-roses (much less thorns). Get tired of being poked by thorns daily, that I want to buy more thornless & blue roses with multiflora-parentage .. just have to make my soil loamy.
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Well why not try 'Russelliana' and 'Bobbie James', they both grew at Charleston quite well despite the soil's alkalinity.
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Thank you for the tip on 'Russelliana' and 'Bobbie James' .. will check that out. I actually get excited when we get frost at night .. it means a cool night for sleeping. Growing roses is just to provide some distraction from summer's heat. The best parts of summer are sniffing roses and eating peaches, but my favorite seasons are frosty fall and cold winter, remind me of Mom's apple pie, hot soups, and wood-burning furnace ... can't have these during summer.
Austin roses can take frost well, and most of my roses are planted next to the house so they are sheltered from light frost. Best thing about cold weather is I don't have to water my roses. How was Mr. Graham Thomas? and how was his garden? Two of my favorite roses (Dee-lish and Versigny) have Graham Thomas rose as their parent ... both have fabulous scents.
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Don't envy me my climate!!!
Light frosts in early June or late August are not rare, in 2015 there was a frost in July!
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