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'Gertrude Jekyll ®' rose Reviews & Comments
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My GJ is being very stingy. Last year (first full season) I tried to grow it as a shrub rose and it didn't produce a flush but once. This year, I decided to let it grow as a climber so I could bend the canes to get more blooms. It did the same thing as last year - It bloomed once in March and just grows and grows without producing more blooms.
I don't know what I'm doing wrong here. It's a fantastic rose when it's in bloom, but it's not repeating very well at all for me. Any idea what might be wrong?
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This rose never did well for me. However, last autumn I gave it a dressing of lime as my soil is rather acidic. I also gave it the absolute minimum of pruning. This year it is flowering better although because of the cool summers in my location it never grows more than 1 metre high, it is on laxa rootstock not 'Dr Huey'.
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Everett: I look over your pictures of roses in pots ... I see pale upper leaves, that's typical of ALKALINE tap water, like my hard-well water at pH 9. For that reason I use vinegar & ACIDIC sulfate of potash & gypsum to fix my alkaline-tap-water and to force Austin roses to repeat fast. See my HMF profile on fixing one's alkaline-tap-water.
Folks in rich-minerals clay-region report Gertrude Jekyll repeats well, if pruned & given enough fertilizer.
Andrew is right about liming if the soil is acidic. Calcium is the building blocks for leaves, stems, roots, and petals. If there's tons of acidic rain (pH 5.6 on the west coast, and near 4 in the East coast) ... that also leach out minerals necessary for blooming. Like my own-root Munstead Wood in a pot refused to bloom with low-nutrients-LOAMY potting soil & tons of acidic rain. But when I put Munstead Wood in my alkaline clay (rich in minerals), it's pumping out 20+ buds right now 7/6/17 for 2nd-flush. To make stingy Austin roses to repeat bloom, a high-dose fertilizer NPK 8-20-40, plus lime (for acidic soil), or gypsum (for alkaline soil). High potassium force roses to bloom. High phosphorus forces more branching, rather than one-cane wonder. Low nitrogen helps to cut down the tall octopus canes (if grafted on Dr.Huey). Credit & many thanks to Perpetua in Romania who shared with me NPK 8-20-40 as the secret to tons of blooms.
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Thank you for the tips! I think you might be right about the soil acidity. I suspect the cause is the run off water from the roof. This year, I've noticed is that all my plants that get a high dosage of run-off rainwater from the roof aren't very happy at all. I lost a baby own root plant earlier this year and almost lost two others. I had a Lady of Shallot in the same spot as the GJ in the picture you saw from last year, and it was having the same symptoms as well. It's not as not growing or blooming much at all either (which is unusual for LoS). I moved it and watered it well and within a week, it started growing again like crazy.
Since I can't move my GJ away from the wall (apartment manager will throw a fit), I'd like to try a fertilizer like the one you suggested. Do you have any suggestions on a brand with that ratio that I can use for potted roses? Will the high numbers burn the roots?
FYI, my local nursery sells Jack's Classic bloom booster (10-30-20). Would that be a good place to start?
Thanks again for your help!
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Your rose is growing in a container, don't forget that most roses, like Clematis, like to have their roots cool and moist.
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Everett: Just saw the pic. of your bush, looks good. I can tell the pH is acidic, from the smaller & spindly & thin canes. At slightly alkaline pH, there's more calcium & potassium & phosphorus for blooming. Just google "plant nutrients chart and pH level" and you'll see.
G.J. at Chicago Botanical Garden is pruned quite short (below my waist) but with more blooms than leaves. CBG has alkaline loamy soil (pH 7.4), and they recommend soluble fertilizer NPK 20-20-20 three times a year.
To force GJ to re-bloom: Any fertilizer LOW in nitrogen would do. Chemical nitrogen has acidifying action .. which makes the pH even lower with acidic rain. Dolomitic lime (calcium & magnesium, pH near 10) is expensive, a cheaper sub. is a 40 lbs. bag of pea-gravel (different colors) sold for $3 at local stores. Alkaline pea-gravel provide solid-minerals to neutralize acidic rain. In that assortment of colorful pea-gravel, the red/pink ones provide iron, the beige ones provide calcium, the gray ones provide magnesium .. but stay away from black-pea-gravel (high aluminum). Aluminum is toxic to roots.
The pea-gravel will neutralize acidic rain, plus provide solid minerals for blooming. Pea-gravel don't shoot up the pH like garden lime, it's a constant steady-release. If you have loamy/sandy soil, there's plenty of phosphorus, just need to aim for neutral pH (7) for phosphorus to be released. However, acidic rain does leach out calcium, potassium, and magnesium (in that order). Pea-gravel can add calcium & magnesium, but one still need potassium, either potassium chloride (very salty, but no acid), or potassium sulfate (sulfate of potash, 1/3 the salt, but with 21% sulfur). Only Amazon or Kelp4Less sell sulfate of potash, I like the sulfate of potash from Kelp4less better, it dissolves easily if sprinkle on the ground. Kelp4Less is free shipping. Years ago I posted a picture in HMF of Frederic Mistral going from 5 blooms per year to 40+ blooms in one flush, via sulfate of potash.
Potassium needs calcium and magnesium for best blooming. In hydroponic studies, the best ratio is 4:2:1:1, 4 part potassium, 2 part calcium, 1 part magnesium, and 1 part phosphorus. Rose tissue analysis done by University of CA at Davis showed similar ratio: twice more potassium than calcium, and much less magnesium and phosphorus. So either dolomitic lime (calcium & magnesium) or pea-gravel will help to activate sulfate of potash.
Also some Tomato-Tone (higher in potassium than Rose-Tone) will provide bacteria & mycorrhyzal fungi to help with phosphorus uptake. Espoma-Tomato tone is higher in calcium, sold for $10 for a HUGE bag at all stores (Walmart, HomeDepot, Lowe's). That has slow-released organic nitrogen, and doesn't lower pH like chemical nitrogen.
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Wow....you really know a lot! Thank you for taking the time to write that! I think the first thing I will do is test the soil, then use a low nitrogen fertilizer if needed. I'm gonna look into the pea gravel/kelp4less combo too.
As far as Tomato Tone goes, should I use the same amount as I would with Rose Tone?
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Where would one find 8/20/40 fertilizer?
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#8 of 30 posted
5 MAR 20 by
 newtie
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Cut it back in winter to 3-4 feet. It will they put out new laterals, get bushier and bloom heavily. This rose likes to be cut back.
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Hi Newtie, are you pruning it as a big bush then, instead of a climber
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My experience was this, when I used David Austin rose food, everything changed! I was so surprised! Healthier leaves, more blooms...and you only have to sprinkle it on the soil,it waters itslf in. Prior, Ihad used Maxsea monthly. But ehat a difference the DA food made! And no, I am not a pusher. Lol
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#11 of 30 posted
20 FEB 21 by
Jay-Jay
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Even though, You're not a pusher. It sounds a bit to me as a conditional sale or tying practice... when the Austins only perform well on Austin's fertilizer.
As a climber, this rose gets spindly legs and only flowers sparsely at the end of the canes is my experience.
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You may be right! I was just thrilled to find something that worked. I had a carding mill just failing and the food helped it enormously. The tricky part was last year they ran out of the food! So this year I bought extra early on so that I did not end up in that position. I’m also trying volcanic ash on some other roses just to see if that works. Always an experiment, right?
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#13 of 30 posted
20 FEB 21 by
Jay-Jay
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What is a karting mill? I know what a carding mill is and used that, before spinning and twining wool.
Volcanic ash seems to me in use a bit hazardous for ones lungs. I use lava grit or lava meal for that purpose.
Or do You use it too smother the aphids too?
And about my remark... I meant it most of the part as a joke. Some Austins just do not perform well everywhere on/in the world and even Austin ruled out a lot of their older varieties and do not promote or sell those anymore.
At least some of the Austins perform well in my garden as for instance Constance Spry, the Mary Rose (and its mutations), Abraham Darby and A Shropshire Lad. The most perform in good years reasonably. Some perform bad: Evelyn and Gertrude Jekyll are among those.
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Ooops carding mill....my bad... I wore a mask when I use the powder because it was kind of freaky. It’s called AZOMITE. And I decided to buy it and granular form after having the powder. It’ll be interesting to see as a sort of science experiment about whether it works or not. I have the Poet’s wife, the pilgrim, and Boscobel coming in. Our Rose Society had the lady who is the representative for David Austin the United States present for us. And she talked about how they have retired some because they’ve learned overtime that they were not top performers. So that was kind of fun to hear that directly from DA themselves. I’ve only been gardening for six years, and I will say that there’s just some roses that don’t work in my garden. For example I can’t get Mr. Lincoln or fragrant cloud to be disease resistant in my garden at all! They flower, but their leaves are horrible. It may have something to do with the fact that I am totally organic too. Oh, my Mary Rose was terribly unhappy...but the area got shaded by my mermaid,so, I moved Mary to a highsun place in a pot and hoping for the best. I give them two years...trouble? They are out! Lol
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Mr. Lincoln is prone to black spot in my area, so the foliage is often rubbish, but the plant is tough enough to keep going anyway. Best idea with Lincoln, IMO, is to plant it somewhere out of the way and just use it for cutting, and/or to plant more aesthetically pleasing things around it.
(I'm not fanatical about organic, but hardly ever spray things.)
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#26 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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#16 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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#17 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
Jay-Jay
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- What means "IMO". First time ever, I see this abbreviation.
- "Our Rose Society had the lady who is the representative for David Austin the United States present for us. And she talked about how they have retired some because they’ve learned overtime that they were not top performers." Some of those retirees perform amazing. Take f.i. a look at: helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.34260
Combined with what was there originally in my HMF inbox:
"But the trademark ran out. So they discredit the old and push new stuff. IMO."
I heard the latter too from a seller and official propagator of Austin Roses.
When one reads the catalogues of Austin, this years' varieties are the best ever...
Most of the time no lineage and as for appearance maybe no improvement of the older varieties.
Maybe another new path of crossing and breeding might be desired?
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IMO = In my opinion
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#19 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
Jay-Jay
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#21 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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I notice that, after going on a wild ride with nicknames, you're back to being veilchenblau. It was exciting while it lasted. :)
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#27 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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It probably should be NMM for you. You could start using NMM just to wind up the Anglos. ;)
(naar mijn mening, if the translator is correct.)
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#24 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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#25 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
Jay-Jay
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The translator is correct, but the "short for" (afkorting) isn't common.
And luckily I had my caffeine today.
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#20 of 30 posted
21 FEB 21 by
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Well damn damn. Bummer.
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#29 of 30 posted
22 FEB 21 by
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#30 of 30 posted
23 FEB 21 by
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