HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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You're right, this plant is mislabeled. The photos varieties of AmiRoses & NEroseman are correct.
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#1 of 1 posted
16 JUN 16 by
Naasra
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I deliberately did post the pictures anyway, just for reference, because a lot of nurseries order cuttings at the Sangerhausen collection.
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This beautiful rambler was hybridized by Jackson Dawson at Boston's Arnold Arboretum, c.1890, and later put in commerce by Luther Burbank (1932). It is one of the first hybrid multiflora ramblers bred in the U.S.
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#1 of 5 posted
20 JUL 07 by
 Cass
NERM, you can read USA Plant Patent 65 online, filed by Luther Burbank's widow on June 30, 1932, showing her, as executrix of Luther Burbank's estate, as the inventor. It would be nice to have a reference from the Arnold Arboretum predating the patent to show Jackson Dawson's involvement! Or was your comment about Dawson, one parent? |
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#2 of 5 posted
20 JUL 07 by
Cass
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NERM, did I misunderstand your point? Were you refering to Dawson as being bred by Dawson? Your comment came up under Apple Blossom.
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Cass: No, I meant 'Apple Blossom' alright. I have proof that this is one of Jackson Dawson's early hybridizations & will send the documented references to you by private email. Notice that Mrs. Burbank's patent is quite vague on parentage & who bred it...
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#4 of 5 posted
21 JUL 07 by
Cass
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I'd love to have the information. Yes, I noticed how vague the patent application was. I wonder if that was before there were patent examiners. And yet Dawson is the acknowledged seed parent in Modern Roses at some point. Time to do some digging in the old American Rose annuals.
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#5 of 5 posted
27 JUN 15 by
CybeRose
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Did Plant Patents Create the American Rose? by Petra Moser and Paul W. Rhode p. 418 (in The Rate and Direction of Inventive Activity Revisited (2012) By Josh Lerner, Scott Stern)
Patent examiners were especially lenient in granting patents for nursery stock that Luther Burbank had developed with financing from Stark Brothers and that was owned by Stark Nurseries after his death (Allyn 1944, 54). In 1933 alone, the USPTO granted nine patents to Burbank's estate, including two for roses (PP65 and 66, Burbank's Apple Blossom and Burbanks 'Golden Sunset), four for plums, two for peaches (PP12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 18), and one for a new variety of cherry (PP41). As late as 1937 and 1938, the USPTO granted PP235 for Burbank's Golden Comet (in 1937) and PP266, PP267, and PP269 for Burbank's Copper Climber, Burbank's Snow White Climber, and Burbank's Dawn Glow (in 1938). None of these posthumously patented roses became commercially important (Terry 1966).
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The rose in U.S. commerce as 'Long John Silver' is likely misidentified. The correct plant, bred from the yellow HT 'Sunburst', bears large, soft yellow buds and very large (4"), open flowers of creamy white with yellow centers, fading silvery white. NERoseman |
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The description you're giving somewhat contradicts the findings of the article (see References) "Rosenfarbstoffe aus der Sicht eines Chemikers", where petals where scientifically tested for colour and Long John Silver was of the purest white.
Also, the HMF description states "moderate scent", but what I smelled of Sangerhausen's Long John Silver was one of the stronger scents, comparable in intensity to Sunsprite.
While being no expert, I think you can see differences in bloom form in the photos here on HMF, and also in hue. There is one with warm-white, more open, and one with cold-white, more globular blooms.
I would really want to know which one I get when ordering Long John Silver at a nursery, because I want the Sangerhausen one! A haunting scent, made me come back again to sniff it.
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Well, I still think it likely that most of the plants in commerce are something other than 'LJS', perhaps 'Iceland Queen'. The specimen in my photo is in the collection of the oldest public rose garden in the U.S. It does have a good fragrance.
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I've added some references for 'Long John Silver' but could not find anything against the rose in commerce being 'Long John Silver'. ( My mind is outrageously pulling me to 'Colonial White'.) I suspect that the remontancy mentioned for 'Long John Silver' in the 1996 reference was an error. I found no references at all for 'Iceland Queen'. Apparently the Connecticut Garden was opened in 1904. 'Long John Silver' was bred in 1934. Do you have a date when the rose in situ was first planted?
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I take it the rose in your photo, which does show a yellow center, is the correct LJS? Might the impostor be another Horvath rose?
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Good fragrance, to my nose.
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