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'Rosa ignota Shinners Synonym' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 122-566
most recent 6 AUG 20 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 11 JUL 20 by Rosewild
Rosa foliolosa Nuttall ex Torrey and Gray 1840
This species is so rare in cultivation I know of only two Botanic gardens where it can be seen. The Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center at Austin where it is part of the native plants of Texas and at the Santa Barbara Botanic Garden in California. Rosa foliolosa has a limited distribution in northern Texas, Oklahoma and barely into Arkansas and Kansas. It is the only native North American species with white flowers hence it’s called the “White Prairie Rose.” What passes for Rosa foliolosa in commerce is actually a tall growing Rosa palustris form or hybrid with intense red flowers, narrow pointed leaflets and most tellingly, curled stipules. Distributed by Hilliers of Westminster, England, its a beautiful rose to which I’ve given the study name “Hilliers foliolosa” to distinguish it from the true species.
I’ve been growing the “Hilliers foliolosa” for many years believing it to be true. But I also grow Rosa palustris whose most distinctive character is curled stipules at the base of each leaflet. I had noticed “Hilliers foliolosa” also has curled stipules and was mystified. Rosa palustris is a species of Eastern North Anerica and far separated from the White Prairie Rose but I assumed somehow they were related.
Serendipitiously the mystery was finally solved in 2015 by a misidentified species growing in the Santa Barbara Botanic Garden. In 2014 a friend sent me photographs of an unidentified but unique species with white flowers and short, densely colonizing growth habit planted in the Santa Barbara Botanic Garden. I contacted the staff and asked if they had any identity. They replied it was Rosa spithamea and the source was Lester Rowntree’s garden in Carmel Highlands! I was astonished by this identity because other than prickly hips and low growth habit there was no other resemblance between the two roses.
In August of 2014 I visited the SBBG to see the rose and was allowed to take root divisions. It was definitely something new unlike any species I’d seen or read about before. The arroyo where it grew at SBBG was pretty dry in late August but the rose was thriving quite well, even blooming. I inventoried all its characters, low growing with few prickles and glossy elliptic to obovate leaves, very short flower pedicels, prickly hips and most spectacularly pure white flowers. I researched and pondered. Then in January, 2015 Vern Yadon, Director Emeritus of the Pacific Grove Museum of Natural History alerted me to the publication of Volume 9, Rosa in the Flora of North America. I obtained a copy and saw the entry for “White Prairie Rose”, Rosa foliolosa Nuttall. The description matched exactly the SBBG species! How I missed not knowing we had a white flowered North American rose species but there it was. Ironically, at the HelpMeFind website, the photos at the entry for Rosa foliolosa are of the red flowered “Hilliers foliolosa” but if one bothered to read the “Reference” entries, it's plainly made clear they’re white!
Scroll through the photos to the Cass post of a Garden and Forest illustration of Rosa foliolosa with curled stipules showing this error in naming goes back at least to 1890.

Note: An expanded version of these comments was published in the January, 2016 issue of Gold Coast Roses, Edited by Jeri Jennings and titled: “The Rose Prize of Santa Barbara Botanic Garden and Rosa Adventures Along the Central Coast” by Don Gers
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Reply #1 of 8 posted 5 AUG 20 by jedmar
Thank you for this contribution. We have added an excerpt from the January 2006 "Gold Coast Roses" to the references. "Flora of North America" mentions a pink form from Wise County, Texas. I understand from your text that you believe the pink R. foliolosa in commerce ("Hilliers foliolosa") is not this pink form, but a hybrid with R. palustris.
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Reply #4 of 8 posted 5 AUG 20 by Rosewild
Yes. Dr. Lewis and Dr. Shinner in the "References" did an investigation of flower color in the field in Texas and found mostly white forms, some pale pink and also a pink. Photos of some of these are at the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower website. I sure would like to see more photos of these short pink forms. There's also another Rosa that may be getting confused with foliolosa. Edward Lee Greene's Rosa rudiuscula, also short, about a foot tall with similar characteristics. But a much broader range.
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Reply #2 of 8 posted 5 AUG 20 by Michael Garhart
Hi, Rosewild,

Have you considered emailing the nurseries in North America about what they actually have? You could even link this HMF to make it easier to show them. Otherwise, the problem will be perpetual.
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Reply #3 of 8 posted 5 AUG 20 by Rosewild
That's a great suggestion. I just had contact with David Jewell, Curator of Hillier's Gardens. They have no provenance information on their Rosa foliolosa. But he put me in contact with Michael Marriott, Senior Rosarian at David Austin Roses. I am hoping he can tell me if there is a third foliolosa, short and pink. Unfortunately the book illustrations are usually of flowers with little or obscure bush details. But descriptions of the pink form are usually short growing. This is definitely not the "Hillier's Foliolosa" I'm growing.
How do I include a link to HMF in an email?
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Reply #5 of 8 posted 6 AUG 20 by Marlorena
If you are registered on Instagram, you could take a look at Michael Marriott's page as amongst his latest group of photos, with R. palustris the first image, the 4th one in the sequence [you have to arrow along] is what he believes to be R. foliolosa and it's a pink form with very narrow leaves..
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Reply #6 of 8 posted 6 AUG 20 by Rosewild
Hi Marlorena,
I tried to see the instagram post but had no success. What would be most helpful is finding out the height of these pink foliolosas. What I'm
starting to see with a few nurseries posting photos of foliolosa, it doesn't match their description. Most say "1 to 3 feet" tall but the plant in their photos certainly looks like "Hilliers Foliolosa" which in my garden grows tall with long, lax brownish-orange canes. I will post a photo with yardstick for scale.
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Reply #7 of 8 posted 6 AUG 20 by Marlorena
Hi again Rosewild,
I've just had another look at Mr Marriott's rose, and I cannot tell exactly how tall it is, only one cane is showing, which looks brownish/orange, and the stipule seems to be longer than is usually seen, with some curling over at the edges.. The flower is a deep pink with darker markings if the lighting is correct..
I do hope Mr Marriott gets in touch with you about it.. He admits that this rose is usually seen as either white or lighter pink.. best wishes..
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Reply #8 of 8 posted 6 AUG 20 by Patricia Routley
To include a link to HMF in an email, have the appropriate comment open, then click on, and copy (usually Control C) the HelpMeFind.com wording at the top of the page.
Return to your email in progress and paste it (usually Control V).
(I really appreciate your clear descriptions In your writing.)
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Discussion id : 96-425
most recent 1 APR 20 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 18 DEC 16 by CybeRose
The Southwestern Naturalist, Vol. 3, No. 1/4 (1958), pp. 151-152
A Monograph of the Genus Rosa in North America. II. R. foliolosa
Walter H. Lewis

Although the mitotic leaf chromosomes from only one plant were studied in detail, several plates from this specimen showed the following karyotype (Figure 3):

1 pair long median chromosomes (aa)
1 pair long subterminal chromosomes (cc)
2 pairs medium median chromosomes (dd, dd)
1 pair medium submedian chromosomes (ee)
1 pair medium subterminal chromosomes (ff)
1 pair short median chromosomes (gg).

This morphology is similar to that for one form of R. Woodsii Lindl. except that--as observed here--one pair of long chromosomes has a median centromere in R. foliolosa and the corresponding pair in R. Woodsii has a submedian centromere. The chromosome morphology of R. foliolosa is also similar to a second diploid species, R. palustris Marsh. The latter has a long submedian pair (bb) and two pairs of medium subterminal chromosomes (ee, ee), while R. foliolosa has a long median pair (aa) and only one pair of medium subterminal chromosomes (ee).

p. 153
From the data presented in Table 1 and the descriptive summary of the characters of R. foliolosa, it is apparent (for this sample studied) that the individuals exhibit an extensive degree of homomorphism. There is no doubt, however, that intraspecific variation does exist. Petal colour from white to pink, peculiar modifications from galls, as well as others mentioned in the species description, are known examples. Regardless, the populations of this taxon are more consistent for both morphological and cytological characters than are those of most rose species. Its limited range and its geographical isolation from diploid Cinnamomeae species (except a partial distribution overlap with R. Woodsii Lindl.) have undoubtedly contributed to this unique phenomenon in the North American Rosa.
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Reply #1 of 2 posted 26 MAR 20 by Michael Garhart
My selection of it is far healthier than any Rosa woodsii I've ever encountered. They're quite common in the Western US, so I've encountered a lot of Rosa woodsii in varying forms. Woods and similar species (pisocarpa, gynocarpa, etc) tend to get a lot of weird diseases usually not mentioned in texts, including rust and powdery mildew. There are some selections in Tillamook State Forest that I am surprised to find surviving. Theyre sitting in a perpetual disease cycle, the same size every year. Its a strange phenomenon. I can only attribute it survival from its disease issues to its ability to root well in forest floors.

At any rate, I have not noted my selection of foliolosa to have such issues. Rosa nitida, for example, gets really bad spot disease. I am not sure which because the leaflets are so tiny and so are the spots of disease. Its not black spot, however. I did not think this would be the virtue of foliolosa when I got it. I was simply curious about the species, but it quickly became apparent that it had far above average resistance to non-typical diseases, and it also seemed to have a high tolerance to drought.

In breeding, I would never recommend the Woods Rose. I have not witnessed a single trait worth using for crop improvement. I'm still exploring foliolosa through its selection and through Ann Endt, which is an amazing plant in itself. Maybe someone else has witnessed a positive trait of Woods Rose worth passing on. I am always happy to know new things.
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Reply #2 of 2 posted 1 APR 20 by CybeRose
I have not seen Rosa woodsii, so I can only speculate that there must be something in the species to give it such an impressive range.

New Phytologist 37: 75 (1938)
PHYLOGENY AND POLYPLOIDY IN ROSA
Eileen Whitehead Erlanson, D.Sc. p. 75
The greatest geographical range of a rose in America is that of R. Woodsii Lindl., a simple diploid form which stretches from the coast of Alaska to Chihuahua, Mexico.

Botanical Gazette 96(2): 207 (Dec 1934)
EXPERIMENTAL DATA FOR A REVISION OF THE NORTH AMERICAN WILD ROSES
Eileen Whitehead Erlanson
3. HARDINESS AND CLIMATIC TOLERANCE.—Cultures at the Botanical Gardens of the University of Michigan showed that some of the roses of the Pacific Coast region were only partially hardy in southern Michigan. R. californica, R. pisocarpa, and R. gymnocarpa grew very slowly, seldom flowered, and were often cut back by frost or winter killed. R. woodsii was very variable in this respect. Plants or seedlings from British Columbia, Washington, the Rocky Mountains, and the Great Plains thrive in Michigan. Plants or seedlings from the arid Great Basin persisted in Michigan but were stunted; they lost their leaves during the summer drought and never flowered. These two physiologically different groups within R. woodsii show a parallel series of variations, and cannot be distinguished morphologically.
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Discussion id : 107-761
most recent 2 FEB 18 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 2 FEB 18 by Michael Garhart
Percy H. Wright describes it as snowline hardy to his then Saskatoon, Sask., Canada, which is Zone 3b on a modern hardiness map. He stated that it dies to the ground in winters with no snow cover, but recovers the following growing season.

So I don't know it's true hardiness. I looked for references, and maybe missed one.

He seems to imply that it would be fine with no cover in lower parts of Canada and Northern USA. So it's definitely hardier than Zone 6, but not "effectively hardy" to 3.
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Discussion id : 97-805
most recent 3 MAR 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 3 MAR 17 by CybeRose
Shinners' manual of the North Central Texas flora p. 118, 1988
William F. Mahler, Lloyd Herbert Shinners
Botanical Research Institute of Texas
4. R. FOLIOLOSA Nuttall. WHITE PRAIRIE ROSE. Dwarf, rhizomatous shrub up to 40 cm. tall. Thorns few, very small, straight. Leaflets glabrous or pubescent on midrib beneath. Flowers solitary, short-pedicelled; petals white or rarely light pink. --- Prairies and open thickets or roadsides, calcareous clay or less often sandy soil; Blackland Prairie west to Grand Prairie. Mid May - early July.
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