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'Gloire de Paris' rose Reviews & Comments
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is there a reliable way to tell whether a found rose is La Reine, or Anna de Diesbach?
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Good suggestion. We need more photos of the canes of both roses, to show the prickles.
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#3 of 9 posted
9 NOV 21 by
 Le_Not
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I've uploaded a photo of the canes of my 'La Reine', in hopes that might be helpful. But I think she's thornier than described on HelpMeFind -- in fact, 'La Reine' is one of the thornier roses in my (admittedly small, mostly "thornless") garden.
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I see what you mean! Thanks for posting the photo. In fact the early illustrations are in keeping with your photo.
I'm back to the same problem - how do I tell the difference. We have quite a few name-lost roses in old gardens in Australia which could be one or the other - obviously it was widely-planted in its time, and is a survivor. Probably La Reine, as the earlier of the two, and the one with a name more likely to interest people here. At present I'm just calling them all "La Reine family".
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I've not grown either, but in the pictures on HMF, it seems to me that AdD sits down among the foliage more than LR, and the latter seems to rise a bit above the bush. I have seen AdD described as a Portland in some sources.
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#6 of 9 posted
10 NOV 21 by
Lee H.
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Margaret, did you notice the comment in references from the The Rose Annual of 1974? “'La Reine' ... blooms early and repeats well, a feature noticeable in its seedlings,'Anna de Diesbach’ (1858) and 'Francois Michelon’ 1891) . Both are in varying shades of pink. Plant-wise too, they show close affinity to ‘La Reine’, but with a deeper cup and a lesser petallage than ‘La Reine' which averages 78, they are less inclined to ball in damp conditions.”
Also, I find that my La Reine does seem to be relatively thornless (at least here in Z6 Indiana)
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Thank you, I missed that one.
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#8 of 9 posted
12 NOV 21 by
Lee H.
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Margaret, I thought I might add one more small clue that I chanced upon quite by accident yesterday while referencing Ethelyn Keays’ “Old Roses”:
“La Reine became the head of a big family of which many survive. Her descendants have, generally, the semiglobular form, are very large, fragrant, and show lilac in the pink or rose-color and maintain a close resemblance to the funnel-shaped calyx.
Anna de Diesbach, 1858, is from La Reine and an unknown variety. This rose has a lovely bloom of a deep carmine-pink shade, very large and full, intensely fragrant; one of the most delightful and most satisfactory of this class. The funnel-shaped calyx is slightly strangled at the top; probably the “unknown” did that. It’s sepals are long, pointed or foliated. Anna is just a bit dressier than La Reine. In lasting quality and profusion of bloom it has proved to be better, with us.”
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That's very useful, thanks. I'll need to check the finer details but I don't think any of our foundlings would be called deep carmine-pink. La Reine rather than Anna de Diesbach, then.
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Just informational Long Ago Roses lists this as Zone 5.
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Proceedings of the New York Farmers (1893) p. 12
Mr. Taylor: There is no such rose as the Gloire de Paris. The man who started that name was in France and found a very good rose and renamed it Gloire de Paris. It took three or four years before other growers saw the point, but after they did they began immediately to import it, but he had a corner on it for three or four years.
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The earliest photos that HelpMeFind is listing are those of 2000.
Apart from 'The Old Rose Advisor' plate 97 of 'Anna de Diesbach' (and plate 90 of its parent La Reine') are there any other early photos of 'Anna de Diesbach' ?
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Hillary drew my attention to an illustration from Jamain's book - will post it. The rose circulated in Australia since the 1980s as Anna de Diesbach is in fact a re-named foundling, and it's possible that it is La Reine (roses sold as La Reine in Australia for a long time have been John Hopper). All very confusing. Whatever the rose is, it's a survivor, turning up in old gardens in all of our mainland states. There are photos of it currently under 'Name This Rose' on www.heritage.rose.org.au
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Margaret - the last sentence in the 1918 reference for 'La Reine' intimates that Forney and Jamain also show a portrait of 'La Reine'. It would be good to have a look at both portraits.
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#3 of 23 posted
10 SEP 12 by
jedmar
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Is it possible to upload both engravings side-by-side for comparison?
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I couldn't find one of La Reine on websites re Jamain et Forney. A couple of the illustrations I found raised my eyebrows a bit - I'm not sure that the illustrations are reliable guides for identification.
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If you go to the Val de Marne (L'Haÿ) site,
You can see two distinct photos, one from the Roseraie, the other from Loubert's.
Val de Marne
http://www.roseraieduvaldemarne.fr/ged/pic/images/8c2120c9306716a8db096ed042ef566e.jpg
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Sorry for the truncated message. HMF for some reason doesn't like links very much.
Loubert's
http://www.roseraieduvaldemarne.fr/ged/pic/images/1083e1c3200e098b7aedeea968268fea.jpg
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Portraits of 'La Reine' and 'Anna de Diesbach'
from Jamain et Forney Les roses : histoire, culture, description
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It would help to see both, as one image.
I did a single screen capture of both images for ease of comparison.
I hope you don't mind.
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Brilliant! Thank you.
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#10 of 23 posted
21 FEB 16 by
true-blue
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Grateful as we are for any old images of these roses, I cannot help but wish that the artist showed us something of the profile of the bloom more often, as in the 'La Reine' plate.
We can see the columnar shape and the depth of the bloom here but can only guess at the ones painted face-on.
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#12 of 23 posted
23 FEB 16 by
true-blue
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Hi Billy,
Your wish is granted :-)
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:) How good is that! Many thanks true-blue.
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#14 of 23 posted
23 FEB 16 by
true-blue
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Stroke of luck!
I just added another of the two Anna's side by side.
They coloring is so different....
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Yes - I found two scanned copies of Jamain et Forney's Les Roses online and there was a lot of difference in the colour captured.
eg La Reine
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#16 of 23 posted
23 FEB 16 by
true-blue
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Intriguing! The one to the left is a vibrant pink.
In case of Anna de Diesbach (from Journal des Roses) I wonder if the artist was being creative with the carmine pink, or was it truly its color?
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Maybe. The description's unambiguous - "a very beautiful carmine pink, shaded silver". Perhaps the printer had trouble getting the colour right then the paper has yellowed with age.
This is apparently what happened with the Alfred Parsons paintings that Ellen Willmott had printed in The Genus Rosa.
Graham Stuart Thomas said, "yellow pervaded to excess all tints of flower and leaf" [in 'The Genus Rosa'.]
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#18 of 23 posted
23 FEB 16 by
true-blue
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Wow! What a difference!
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Another B &W photo!
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Looks like Biltmore had a ring-in (wrong rose) - the petal count doesn't look enough for the original picture. Or did something happen to Anna de Diesbach between 1871 and 1878 (see post number 12). Or does it double its petal count at times, the way Teas do?
If Anna de Diesbach can look like the Biltmore pictures, then the foundling that turns up in many places in Aus is more likely La Reine than Anna.
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This is the description from the catalg in the ref.
Website/Catalog (1913) Page(s) 10. Includes photo(s).
Hybrid Perpetual Roses.
Anne de Diesbach
A Rose of brilliant carmine, giving satisfaction everywhere because of the stability of color and fragrance. It blooms over a long period and is one of the most serviceable of the garden Roses. The flowers are heavy, large and double, giving a fluffy effect when fully opened. The buds are long and pointed and balance gracefully upon the stem. The plant is of robust growth, the spreading stems having the pleasing effect of riotousness. It can be successfully grown in any part of the United States or lower Canada, and is becoming more popular every year- as it becomes better known.
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The buds in the photo match those in the Journal des Roses portrait very well and the profile of the bloom looks right.
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Agreed. I'm just having trouble reconciling some of the profile views with the fullness of the en face ones. Maybe it's technical (and I should have thought of that) - the profile views can't show the cushion of petals tucked inside the flower.
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