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'Red Letter Day' rose Reviews & Comments
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In Tasmania recently, I saw a named bush of ‘Red-Letter Day’ that a mother (or grand-mother) planted many decades ago. This was a tall bush (5 feet?) with green wood and some thorns. The foliage was dark and small with impressed veins. The one open bloom was crimson with a whitish or light reverse. They seemed to be mostly solitary but there was some clustering. There was a very prickly or sandpaper feel to the pedicel and receptacle. The small receptacle was long and of basically the same shape as that pictured below. There were no hips visible but the sepals were retained on the receptacles. New growth was brown, not red.
Does anyone else know if this clone sets hips? ‘Red-Letter Day’ was said to be a prolific seed-setter (1924 reference). And did anyone smell this clone? ‘Red-Letter Day’ was said to have no fragrance (1922, 1924, 1925 refs).
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#1 of 10 posted
6 NOV 20 by
 HubertG
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There's a tall HT in the Barbara May garden at Rookwood Cemetery in Sydney of the 'Red-Letter Day' type which
I noticed, when I visited last winter, has strikingly narrow receptacles and buds. I mention this because even though I have no idea if it is 'Red-Letter Day' it did have quite a few hips on it. It wasn't labelled of course. I took some photos. Unfortunately the only open flowers were high up and I couldn't get a decent shot.
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I think that would be Rookwood "Jane Wellingham".
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I lean towards “Rookwood China” (R. Chinensis Sanguinea).
Standing near the center of the long bed, do you recall was it to the right, or the left?
Have you contacted the Rookwood office - or Heritage Roses in Australia, Sydney branch to ask the name or the “study name”?
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It will be simpler when the roses in the Long Garden are labelled.
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#5 of 10 posted
7 NOV 20 by
HubertG
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After posting those photos I noticed that the stems seemed to be very smooth unlike "Jane Wellingham" whose pedicels seem to be a bit bristly so, unless this is a very variable trait, I don't think it's "Jane Wellingham", although the bud shape is similar. Everything about its scale was too large for a typical China in my opinion. The flowers were HT or large Tea sized to me, although it also makes me think of Gigantea in some ways.
It was situated on the side on the bed furthest from the road where there is a retaining wall, hence it being too high to smell or photograph well, and more to the right side of the bed if you were looking towards the road. I haven't contacted anyone about it.
If it does have few prickles (and I'll have to go back sometime to check) perhaps 'Warrior' is a possibility, especially considering the reference that it was a popular winter flowerer in Sydney.
Sorry if it was inappropriate posting this under 'Red-Letter Day' but I guess discussion about any of these similar styled roses can help differentiate them.
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#6 of 10 posted
11 NOV 20 by
HubertG
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I returned to this garden today and labels have been added to many of the roses. Although it wasn't flowering today, the rose I posted photos of above was tagged "Rookwood Sanguinea".
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Thank you - that simplifies things. Except that I wish they wouldn't call it Sanguinea, which should be double according to early references. More likely Bengal Crimson.
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#8 of 10 posted
11 NOV 20 by
HubertG
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There's no file here for "Rookwood Sanguinea". I assume that it's the same as "Rookwood China" or would that be a wrong assumption? It's the biggest flower on a China that I've ever seen. I thought it was a Hybrid Tea at first, similar to the Irish ones. I collected nine ripe orange hips off the ground under the bush and they average 2cm in diameter. I have a photo of a hip with a fallen petal from last winter and using that scale the petal must be about 5cm long, so flowers roughly 10cm across. I'll have to go back when it's flowering.
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Yes, it was called "Rookwood China" in an article in the HRIA Journal several years ago.
There are a couple of other unknown Chinas that I'm aware of at Rookwood ("J. Datson", "Jane Vaughan") but they couldn't be confused with the big-flowered one.
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#10 of 10 posted
11 NOV 20 by
HubertG
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Initial post
8 NOV 20 by
petera
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I have copied these from comments on my picture of 2 Nov so they are more obvious for other memebers
Initial post 5 days ago by [HMF supporting member] Margaret Furness
Worth the effort you, John and others put into collecting budwood on a 49C day.
Reply #1 of 7 posted 5 days ago by [HMF supporting member] Patricia Routley
What was the provenance of this plant at Ruston’s. Did David always have it, or was it brought in later?
Reply #2 of 7 posted 5 days ago by [HMF supporting member] Margaret Furness
I don't know which plant was the source of the budwood - we had one from Rosses, but I don't know where David planted it. The most likely source of the budwood taken by John was a plant given by Janet Walker in N Tas (sometimes called "Janet's RLD"). Grown as R-L D by her mother.
There was a suggestion that Rookwood "Jane Wellingham" might be Red-Letter Day, but it wasn't labelled that.
Reply #3 of 7 posted 5 days ago by [HMF supporting member] Patricia Routley
Thanks Margaret. Petera, do you or John know which plant the budwood was taken from? Did anybody keep a list that hot day? There are a few similar single-ish red ones around that it would be good to record these details.
Reply #4 of 7 posted 2 days ago by [HMF supporting member] petera
Patricia, I don't know which plant was sampled and have just followed John N's attribution of Red Letter Day. I planted it in winter 2017 so it would have been budded summer 2016. It was in 2018 that I helped collect at Ruston's. Tomorrow I will take pictures of buds and prickles that might be diagnostic. You have me concerned now what the source really was. I got in a big batch of early HTs and assumed the budwood all came from Ruston's.
Reply #5 of 7 posted 2 days ago by [HMF supporting member] Margaret Furness
I don't think any of the three possibles at Ruston's (two ex Rookwood and Rosses') would have been labelled Red-Letter Day, except the one from Janet.
Reply #6 of 7 posted 2 days ago by [HMF supporting member] Patricia Routley
It seems likely that "Janet's RLD“ was the one I made an attempt to describe in the ‘Red Letter Day’ comments on December 12, 2914. You might find some matching characteristics in my comment Petera.
Reply #7 of 7 posted 2 days ago by [HMF supporting member] petera
Patricia, That is what I was meaning, and also the comments on "Jane Wellingham". I have Midnight Sun growing here as well but it has not come into bloom yet in this very cool season. Peter
I have uploaded lots of photos that might be diagnostic. To me the receptacle and prickle shapes and the bristly pedicels look closer to "Jane Wellingham" than "BL Linton Boy". John N. obtained the plant from David Ruston before 2016 and says David had identified it as 'Red Letter Day'. He did not change the name David had used. It may not have come from the HRIA collection.
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The 2012 “Jane Wellingham,” reference says “Jane Wellingham” from Rookwood has been planted (at Ruston’s) next to ‘Red Letter Day* (and “Bishop’s Lodge Linton Boy”). (*I have David’s Rose Collection booklet 2003-2004 and he was not listing ‘Red Letter Day’ in that.)
Without accurate record keeping on provenance, it is anyone’s guess on which rose John, before 2016, took budwood from. In the real estate world, it is location, location, location. In the old rose world it is PROVENANCE, PROVENANCE, PROVENANCE.
You might need to look closely at the reverse colour of the petal, and of course, hips.
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North bed at Renmark before it was slashed to ground level, documented provenance:
D 40 Rookwood "Jane Welllingham"(possibly Red-Letter Day).
D 41 "Bishop's Lodge Linton Boy" (at one stage Red-Letter Day was suggested, more recently thought by John to be K of K).
D 43 Red-Letter Day (Rose grown by Janet Walker's mother in N Tas under that name. There have been occasional uncertainties about it, so it has been called "Janet's R-L D" at times.)
I don't know where David planted the Red-Letter Day that came from Rosses a few years ago, but it didn't reach the HRIA beds.
"Janet's R-L D" is in the garden at Petticoat Lane. It may be feasible to have the other three planted there for comparison, again.
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The paragraph about “Jane Wellingham” planted next to ‘Red Letter Day” and Bishop’s Lodge Linton Boy appeared in the HRiA journal 33-2-4 in 2011.
The Tasmanian conference when we first saw “Janet’s Red Letter Day” was in 2013.
So something, presumed to be ‘Red Letter Day’ was growing next to BLLB and JW in 2011.
I have opened a file for “Janet’s Red Letter Day”. It would be of interest to add any photos from the visit to Janet’s garden in 2013.
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Re: ARS Reg:Deep pink [dp] and bloom color: deep pink.
As the wonderful picture from Pat Toolan shows, and the references below, this rose is not deep pink, but scarlet crimson.
Can anybody explain, or give an example of "cactus form"?
RED LETTER DAY .
Alex. Dickson, 1914.
1914-1915 Alex. Dickson & Sons Ltd. Hawlmark, Newtownards, Co. Down. Catalogue (from Pat Toolan, with colourpix)
Red Letter Day (H.T. Decorative). – An exceedingly beautiful semi-double rose, of infinite grace and charm. Its velvety, brilliant, glowing crimson buds and fully opened cactus-like flowers never fade, as the reflex of the petals is satiny crimson scarlet, colourings devoid of blue or magenta. Its refined, vigorous, erect growth, with dark, sage, glaucous green foliage is festooned with delightful blooms throughout the entire flowering season. It is an ideal decorative and bedding rose, combining in a marked degree all the essentials required in such. Wherever exhibited it has invariably commanded unparalleled admiration, and was always a centre of attraction, while visitors to our gardens were lavish in their laudations. It is certainly one of the most attractively charming, decorative, and bedding roses we have yet raised, or has yet been distributed. Awarded Gold and Silver Gilt Medals, N.R.S.
Standards, 7/6 ; Dwarfs, 5/- each.
1921 RNRS “The Rose Annual”
p66. Red Letter Day. HT (Alex. Dickson, 1914). Scarlet crimson, semi-single, with rich golden stamens, retaining its colour throughout. Active of habit, continuous in flowering, and good in autumn. In the mass a glorious piece of colour.
1924 RNRS “The Rose Annual” [NOTE THESE REFERENCES ARE COMPARING TO R.L.D.]
P146. Miss C. E. Van Rossem (Verschuren, 1919. A charming little rose of the Red Letter Day type, but more double. A real gem for bedding. It has delightful little perfectly formed flowers of a rich deep shape of crimson
P147. Hawlmark Crimson…. This is of the K of K and Red Letter Day type. But I hardly think we want it when we have such exquisite sorts as Colonel O. Fitzgerald.
1928. Edward E. Pescott “Rose Growing in Australia”
P42. Roses entirely without fragrance are fairly rare; the most notable examples being Red Letter Day, Frau Karl Druschki and Dean Hole.
1929 Yates Catalogue p119b/w pix [same pix as the 1914 Hawlmark one]
1948. George M. Taylor “Pearson’s Encyclopaedia of Roses” [COMPARING]
p221. Hawlmark Crimson. (H.T.) Intense velvety-crimson, semi-double flowers. There is a veining of maroon through the blossoms. A grand grower with strong, healthy foliage. Very similar to Red Letter day but much darker in colour. Bedding.
1948. George M. Taylor “Pearson’s Encyclopaedia of Roses”
p234. Red Letter Day (H.T.) Flower velvety, brilliant, glowing scarlet-crimson, opening to medium-sized curiously cactus-shaped flowers, which do not fade or burn in the sun, as the reflex of the petals is satiny crimson scarlet colourings devoid of blue or magenta, semi-double. Growth erect and free-branching; free and continuous flowering throughout the season. Bedding.
[Patricia's note: Similar roses may be
Colonel Oswald Fitzgerald
Hawlmark Crimson
Midnight Sun (nearly scentless)
Miss C. E. Van Rossem (strong fragrance)
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Initial post
28 NOV 06 by
jedmar
George C. Thomas states the following on "Red-Letter Day" in his "Roses for All American Climates", New York 1924: "RED-LETTER DAY. A. Dickson 1914. Hardy Glowing scarlet-crimson - very brilliant and intense color; bud long and pointed; open flower, loose, few petals; good size and color; no fragrance. Foliage seldom has mildew, but is susceptible to black-spot. Upright growth; stems thin but fairly strong. A splendid bedding rose, but with little or no cutting value. Stands equal fourth in English Rose Annual's 1923 voting-lists of roses for general garden cultivation. Very continuous bloomer _ forty blooms in Cen. Zone and forty-seven with Mr. Gersdorff on own roots, washington, D.C. (K. f K. is much the same in color, has some fragrance, and is possibly, a better grower, but Red-Letter Day has so far remained in the lead in the English voting-list.)" The breeding date of 1914 poses a problem re the parentage of American Pillar (1902). |
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