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'Rosier des Indes' rose Reviews & Comments
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Re the 2002 reference: earlier this year I checked with Bob Cherry, whether he'd brought back a big single red from China, and he said no.
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#1 of 16 posted
11 NOV 20 by
 HubertG
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Does anyone know the original source of the "Rookwood China" planted in the Barbara May garden at Rookwood in Sydney (the specimen currently labelled "Rookwood Sanguinea")? Is this a foundling rose discovered in the cemetery or simply some heritage rose from another source and then planted in Barbara's garden?
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Glennis thinks it was a Rookwood rose, and Barbara pencilled Pastor Phillips beside the name on the list. She didn't state the first name, so the grave may take a while to find.
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#3 of 16 posted
12 NOV 20 by
HubertG
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Thanks. I just looked up the old newspapers and there was a Pastor William Phillips buried in the Baptist section of Rookwood in March 1913. Perhaps that might help and also give an indication of the age of the rose's introduction if in fact it isn't some old China rose.
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Thank you, I'll forward that to Glennis.
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#5 of 16 posted
12 NOV 20 by
HubertG
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And just looking up the Sydney Cemetery Headstone Transcriptions on Ancestry.com, I find Pastor Phillips' headstone is inscribed "Pastor" and it's in Section E, Row 9 of the "Independent" section. They also give an age of 78 and date of death as 4 Mar 1913. No first name seems to written on the headstone, just "W. Phillips". It all seems to fit.
One has to wonder that if this rose was planted on Pastor Phillips' grave c1913 whether it would be an obscure (and at the time probably hard-to-obtain) old China rose. Planting something like that in Sydney at that time would be unusual to my way of thinking. It could be a rootstock but then you might expect to see it popping up all over New South Wales.
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Good sleuthing!
Pure speculation - what if some of his parishioners were Chinese?
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#7 of 16 posted
12 NOV 20 by
HubertG
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Actually, that might not be too far-fetched. A bit more sleuthing reveals a death notice in the Sydney Morning Herald of 18 Apr 1908 reporting the death of May Liddy, daughter of Catherine the wife of Pastor Phillips, in Ta-Ning, China, of typhus fever. So there was a Chinese connection. She left for China in October 1906 as part of the China Inland Mission. She could have sent back plant material to her mother from China. I guess anything is possible.
I'm kind of wishing they'd call this rose "Pastor Phillips" - it's much more interesting.
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This is all good fun.
Glennis tells me that the Rookwood records say Catherine and her husband are buried in the same grave.
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#9 of 16 posted
12 NOV 20 by
HubertG
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I see Catherine Phillips died in 1928. It's interesting to speculate whether she planted the rose in 1913 or her children planted it on her death. In any case, now I know the location of their grave, when I have more time, I can return and take photos and hopefully get better shots of the specimen labelled "Rookwood Sanguinea" in Barbara May's garden.
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Or "May Liddy's rose", perhaps.
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#11 of 16 posted
12 NOV 20 by
HubertG
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Or "Miss Liddy" just to confuse people with 'Miss Lowe', lol.
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Liddy & Lowe.
Was she Miss? Do we know if she has a memorial in Aus?
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#13 of 16 posted
12 NOV 20 by
HubertG
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Yes, she was a Miss. From what I've gleaned she was only about 26 at the time of her death. She was born in Victoria and her father was Baptist Reverend Walter Adam Liddy, Catherine Phillips' first husband. I know of no memorial to her in Australia. Her full name was Sarah May Liddy but her death notice and another newspaper article from just before her departure for China refers to her as "May Liddy", so I'm guessing that's the name she went by.
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I have just added two early Australian 1851 and 1878, references and I have presumed they were for R. Chinensis Sanguinea.
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Thank you. I take it there was no description, to suggest whether it was single or double.
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Correct. No description.
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Before I add the foundling name of “Rookwood China”, can I ask the Heritage Roses in Australia members if the most recent three HRiA references are correctly placed in this ‘Bengal Crimson’ file?
Later edit. The fourth HRiA 2020 reference seems to indicate that the above is correct. I have added the synonym.
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" Small, very double, globular bloom form.", I don't think that description is very accurate.
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#1 of 3 posted
1 MAY 18 by
HubertG
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It sounds more like a description of 'Semperflorens', in my photograph below.
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Definitely not Andrew... I grow it as 'Bengal Crimson' and it's never anything like that..
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Indeed Marlorena, I grow it too and the flowers are always single with lax and floppy petals not globular or double.
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#1 of 3 posted
10 APR 17 by
Cà Berta
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The reason of the large dimension of the “Italian” Sanguinea is probably the existing confusion between Sanguinea and Miss Lowe’s rose. I suspect that most of the Italian former are, in fact, the latter rose (or Bengal Fire).
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I am growing 'Sanguinea' for the first time this year in my own garden, it is almost in flower now, I just can't wait to see it!
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#3 of 3 posted
10 APR 17 by
jedmar
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See also Fred Boutin's comments for 'Miss Lowe's Variety'.
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There is a good picture of 'Sanguinea' and 'Miss Lowe's' variety together in Roger Phillips/Martyn Rix's Quest for the Rose book.
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