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"Mr. Williams' Gloire de Dijon" rose Reviews & Comments
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Is the ploidy of this rose known?
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#1 of 4 posted
1 DEC by
 jedmar
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Modern Roses V states it is triploid, however, I have a feeling that the ploidy numbers in this catalogue were just assigned, not measured.
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Thanks Jedmar - I don't have Modern Roses (being an old-rose grower), and didn't know it stated ploidies.
I wondered if Elie B were triploid, as there are 5 developing hips on it: one hand-pollinated with pollen from Lady Hillingdon, which is 1.5m away. I'll wait till they ripen before checking for seeds.
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#3 of 4 posted
1 DEC by
jedmar
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Only Modern Roses V had ploidies. That information was dropped later.
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The hand-pollinated hip died off without ripening. None of the 5 hips my young plant has set so far (mid-summer) contained seeds.
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None of the comments or references for this rose seem to mention scent. It does have one. It's not a strong scent, and you have to get your nose close to the bloom (at least when there are only a few*) but it is a very pleasant scent. There doesn't seem to be any Tea or damask in it. It's what I would call sweet and floral, with maybe a bit of orange blossom to it.
*I'm using my one cutting-grown plant as an example, and it has only produced sporadic blooms so far.
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From the Mystery Roses booklet: " “Mr Williams’ Gloire de Dijon”
Collected from several old gardens in WA.
Probably ‘Élie Beauvilain’ (Beauvilain 1887. Some Noisette ancestry.)
The same as the rose grown overseas under that name. No recorded offspring.
The flowers are double to very double, most commonly mid-pink but can vary to buff. Petals can have a yellow nub, sometimes a white stripe. At times the petal reverses are darker. It flowers in flushes and in winter.
Sweet Tea scent.
The receptacle and pedicel are smooth.
It sets a few hips, but seeds are very rare.
Leaflets are broad.
Moderate climber, spreading and arching."
The simplistic description of the scent means it's probably my comment - I don't have Billy's trained nose.
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Would those who grow this rose under any name, please check for seeds and hips? My plant ("Mr Williams' rose") set a few hips but I note that no descendants are listed.
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Hi Margaret,
As I recall it will occasionally set OP hips. However, in my experience most of these hips were dummies and held no viable seed.
Knowing what I know now, I'd guess you could coax seed fertility out of it with some effort.
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Thank you.
It's more the correctness of the ID I'm chasing. Alas I no longer have a plant, and my previous garden has mostly been demolished by the new owner. It happens.
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I have no faith that what I grew was correct.
There are many imposters for well known OGR's, as you know.
To make matters worse, many of them are closely related, which adds to the confusion.
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Indeed.
We're working on a booklet of mystery Teas in Australia, and throwing in a selection of those which have been circulated under wrong names. Some still are.
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#5 of 12 posted
18 FEB 22 by
Bonita
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Margaret Furness
I have a plant of Elie Beauvillain but have deadheaded it regularly so I don’t know about hips. Mine is growing up and around a coppers log.
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We had the same problem with finding hips at Renmark - David was a compulsive deadheader!
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#7 of 12 posted
19 FEB 22 by
AmiRoses
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I uploaded some photos of a hip I have.
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Thank you!
Are you going to try planting the seed?
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#9 of 12 posted
19 FEB 22 by
AmiRoses
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Already done, we'll see !
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#11 of 12 posted
12 JUL 22 by
Bonita
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Hello Margaret
I have a plant of this up on a koppers log. It is sending down arching canes and is in bloom today 12 July 2022. It would seem to like the winter months in Toowoomba.
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It's a good rose for warm climates.
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What's the current thinking on the ID of the rose sold under this name? Thanks.
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