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'Grootendorst Red' rose Reviews & Comments
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Initial post
8 APR 22
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* Posted by unregistered site guest: Pending HMF administrative review. *
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Is this Grootendorst? Photograph's taken in artificial light. Last year it still bloomed in December! But then the flowers were even smaller(≤ 2cm), than normal.
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#2 of 12 posted
9 JUL 16 by
 Jay-Jay
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Thank You Patricia for the feedback.
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Now I am asking the same question. My 'F. J. Grootendorst' 1918 blooms are smaller than its sport 'Pink Grootendorst' 1923 and do not seem quite as fimbriated as 'Pink Grootendorst'. The petal shape is slightly wider and shorter than 'Pink Grootendorst'. These differences may be because 'F. J. Grootendorst' has had very little pruning in past years, and 'Pink Grootendorst' might have had just a little more, being on the edge of the bed. Both these plants are within two metres of one another. Is this size difference normal with both parent and sport?
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It's possibly due to the weather/climate interacting with the chemicals that produce the color.
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It is not actually the color that concerns me, Michael.
Initially I was asked by a New Zealand rosarian to find out more about 'Signe Relander' as the plant which came from Trevor Griffiths nursery and named as that, seemed to the same as 'F. J. Grootendorst'. Which lead me to looking closely at my 'F. J. Grootendorst'.
I am unsure whether 'F. J. Grootendorst' 1918 sported to just a new colour with 'Pink Grootendorst' in 1923 - or whether the sport also had larger blooms and different shaped petals, along with its pink colour.
Or perhaps my red rose is not 'F. J. Grootendorst' after all.....?
I have emailed Poulsen Roser for help, and they may yet reply, but not so far.
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I have never had a company reply to me, but maybe Poulsen will be an exception.
I see. Well, lots of food for thought here.
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#7 of 12 posted
29 DEC 17 by
Jay-Jay
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Found in the descriptions on HMF, that sizes and petal count seem to differ a little. I wrote those characteristics in CAPITALS:
Pink Grootendorst: Pink. None to mild fragrance. 25 to 30 petals. AVERAGE diameter 1.5". Small, FULL (26-40 petals) bloom form.
Grootendorst: Red. None to mild fragrance. 39 petals. AVERAGE diameter 1.25". Small, VERY DOUBLE, cluster-flowered, in large clusters, open bloom form.
So Pink Grootendorst might be slightly larger.
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In the U.K. 'Pink Grootendorst' flowers paler than in your picture, 'White Grootendorst' is a horrible dirty white. I love the colour of your 'F. J. Grootendorst' that's one I will be ordering for myself.
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Well, I am very grateful to you for those measurements Jay-Jay. You made me look harder and get the ruler out on blooms in the vase. They are indeed both about those sizes. Perhaps it is the dark red which makes it retreat into the background, and the more strident pink is shown up more and so seems larger.
So, that gets me back to - how does 'Signe Relander' differ from 'F. J. Grootendorst'?
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#10 of 12 posted
29 DEC 17 by
Jay-Jay
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Wow! Those two roses are close-related!!!
It looks as if the clusters of Signe Relander contain less flowers than the large clusters of F.J. Grootendorst.
But I do not grow those roses together.
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My feeling is that 'Signe Relander' is scented, and 'F. J. Grootendorst' is not. Which might be a reason for you to choose 'Signe Relander' if you can find it Andrew.
Thank you for your interest and help Jay-Jay.
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Thank you Patricia, I will have to buy 'Signe Relander' from Europe which will be expensive. Your 'F. J. Grootendorst' almost looks dark enough for 'F. J. Grootendorst Supreme'.
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This might be added to the "References" tab; "The Origin of the Rugosa Hybrid, F. J. Grootendorst, - A letter in May, 1923, from a Holland nurseryman who has given the most careful and useful attention to compiling an accurate list of rose varieties, mentions the origin of this excellent and unusual Polyantha hybrid in the following words: 'I was among the jury that gave the first award to this rose. It was in the nursery of a very small fellow, and I remember that we gave it the highest award because we thought of the greatest possibilities of this rose in a rough climate. Some people have blamed us for it, but I am still proud of my share in it. You will find the name of the raiser (De Goey) in our coming list (Grootendorst is the introducer only), which list is now ready for the press."
1924 American Rose Annual, p. 186.
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#1 of 1 posted
10 SEP 17 by
jedmar
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We'll do it once the References tab is operational again!
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Available from - Old Market Farm
www.oldmarketfarm.com
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