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'Esther Pradel' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 167-310
most recent 28 MAY HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 27 MAY by odinthor
The Setigera ‘Mary Washington’ (also called 'Washington') was “grown as Estella (or Esther) Pradel in Florida, but we know that that is not the correct name” [Annual Catalog, Royal Palm Nurseries, 1899, p. 51].
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Reply #1 of 9 posted 27 MAY by jedmar
'Mary Washington' mislabeled as 'Esther Pradel'?
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Reply #2 of 9 posted 28 MAY by odinthor
I'm only relaying the quote!
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Reply #3 of 9 posted 28 MAY by jedmar
Just to make sure I understood the quote correctly!
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Reply #4 of 9 posted 28 MAY by odinthor
Yes, that's indeed what they're saying. And, when one goes through looks at the various literature (not necessarily here) about 'Esther Pradel' (or 'Estelle Pradel') over the decades, one indeed finds as time goes on a series of them (descriptions) describing a pure white vigorous, even rampant, one, which is obviously distinct from those about the chamois tinted dwarf original 'Esther Pradel'. How this came to be is mysterious (but mystery is our everyday provender in Old Roses).
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Reply #5 of 9 posted 28 MAY by HubertG
I'm pretty certain I've seen a photo of a spray Esther or Estelle Pradel in an American catalogue though I can't remember which one, but if my memory serves me correctly it was one from the South and was early 20th century. It might be worth you hunting for it.

Edited to add; it's in the 1905 Glen Saint Mary catalogue on page 45 as 'Estelle Pradel' ... but I'm in bed ;-)
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Reply #6 of 9 posted 28 MAY by jedmar
Photo and references added, thank you!
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Reply #7 of 9 posted 28 MAY by HubertG
You're welcome, jedmar, but thank you!
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Reply #8 of 9 posted 28 MAY by jedmar
Here's what might have happened: The noisette 'Euphrosine' by Goubault was available in USA from the 1850s. An article in JdR of 1880 compares this to 'Esther Pradel' - both having fawn and pink double blooms. The found rose "Mary Washington" is described both as a Noisette or a Setigera. Clearly, the latter rose cannot be from George Washington, there were neither Noisettes nor Setigeras in his time. So, do we have 'Euphrosine' morphed into 'Mary Washington' and 'Estelle Pradel'?
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Reply #9 of 9 posted 28 MAY by odinthor
That's a good and reasonable scenario! Thanks.
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