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'Rosa X moyesii 'Geranium'' rose Reviews & Comments
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I grow 'Geranium' in my heavy acid soil on multiflora rootstock, provenance Golden Vale Nursery in 2000. It has suffered a lot of cane dieback over the years and right now in early autumn, it has lots of healthy new canes, and a lesser amount of blackening canes. I have been just cutting the black canes out, but I am wondering how this rose grows in alkaline conditions?
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It would have been growing on almost pure chalk at Highdown, Sir Fredrick Stern's garden, when it hybridized to make 'Highdownensis'.
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I understand chalk soils have a pH of 7.1 or above - so tending towards alkaline. I might give my plants a summer, as well as the winter dressing of dolomite per year I think. Thanks Andrew.
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Chalk is calcium carbonate, CaCO3, there is the most diverse range of plants growing on chalk downland in the U.K. than anywhere else in the country. Roses grow abundantly here, especially R. rubiginosa, despite the actual soil being just a few centimetres deep. Humphrey Brooke grew fantastic roses at his garden, Lime Kiln, which were planted into holes hacked out of pure chalk.
My garden is on acid soil and I dress the roses with lime in the autumn and give them all the ashes from my fire. I also add a little extra boron too as I think that is lacking from my soil.
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In the Rose Annual for the National Rose Society (UK), there is an article titled Rose Growing on Chalk Soil by one A. M. Ateur. The effort made is little short of heroic.
"The first work was to dig, and then dig, till the whole of the ground was gone over and bastard trenched...
"The first year I purchased 80 loads of cow manure, and this was incorporated with the chalk, also quarter-inch bones were thrown in the trench before filling and worked in with the fork, being careful not to bring the chalk to the surface."
Then followed the planting of "10,000 seedling briars". onto which the next summer were budded roses such as "50 'Lady Pirrie' " and "50 'Madame Abel Chateney' " as well as "about two dozen each of such varieties as Sunburst, Chas. de Lappise, Rayon d'Or, Mrs. Theo Roosevelt..." , not to mention the building of "the usual pergola" with its' climbers "of all and every kind we could obtain in pairs".
Mrs. Ateur, the author states, is allowed to cut roses whenever she likes except just before a show. I suppose that would have been some comfort for never seeing one's husband.
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It is interesting that 'Geranium' is listed as a hybrid moyesii. I always understood that it and its sister variety 'Sealing Wax' were selections from moyseii seed and R. moyesii does have red flowered variants growing in the wild. If you sow seed from 'Geranium' it reverts back to the pinker flowered moyesii.
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#5 of 11 posted
14 MAR 17 by
 jedmar
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It is a selection, but grown from seed, i.e. a seedling, and a seedling is always a hybrid (even when self-pollinated). Anyway, HMF only has Hybrid or Species or Species Cross classes for wild roses.
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From what I understood it was a selected form rather than an actual cross with another type.
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The Quest for the Rose, by Roger Phillips and Martyn Rix. Published by BBC books 1993.
p75.
GERANIUM A clone of Rosa moyesii, chosen for its compact growth and good hips. Raised from wild seed at Wisley in Britain 1938. Summer flowering. Height to 250cm (8ft).
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THE ROYAL HORTICULTURAL SOCIETY ENCYCLOPEDIA of ROSES, by Charles and Brigid Quest-Ritson. Published by Dorling Kinderley, 2003 edition.
p. 166
This is best regarded as a cultivar of Rosa Moyesii, which it differs only in the colour of its flowers. It is said to be shorter and more compact too, but the size and shape of 'Geranium' is well within the natural variation that the species exhibits in the wild. The flowers are a brilliant geranium-red, without the inflorescence of a pelargonium but rendered even brighter by yellow stamens. The hips are pendulous and flagon-shaped, perhaps a little broader than most other forms of Rosa moyesii, but the same bright vermilion-red. 'Geranium' was selected at the Royal Horticultural Society's gardens at Wisley in England, and was probably grown from seed collected in the wild.
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#10 of 11 posted
9 NOV 20 by
petera
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Andrew, I think your interpretation of "hybrid" is correct. Hybrid probably should refer to an "interspecific hybrid" or a member of a "hybrid swarm" such as modern garden roses. 'Geranium' is a selected clone of the species Rosa moyesii as no other species is involved in its ancestry. That it really is not a hybrid is suggested by its being hexaploid. If it had an HT pollen parent (generally tetraploid) it would be expected to be pentaploid like 'Highdownensis'. Jedmar's comparison of viable seeds in the two clones is rather nice as pentaploids often have low fertility. If 'Geranium' really is a hybrid its pollen parent would have to have been from another hexaploid species but there are not all that many of them. Peter
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Interesting, thank you Peter.
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Despite initially growing well Rosa moyesii 'Geranium', planted five years ago, steadily died back and this year finally gave-up the ghost. Just a few metres away is a bush of 'Highdownensis' that has grown to 4m x 4m. Put in 10 years ago; it has never been pruned in any way and you won't find a single piece of dead wood on it!
I planted another two summers ago on a site once used for bonfires, so far it looks promising.
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Biochemical Systematics and Ecology 28: 887-902 (2000)
Anthocyanins in flowers of genus Rosa, sections Cinnamomeae (=Rosa), Chinenses, Gallicanae and some modern garden roses
Mikanagi, Saito, Yokoi, Tatsuzawa
"In particular, the blood-red coloured flowers of R. moyesii cv. Geranium contained [cyanidin 3-sophoroside] as 56% of total anthocyanins. This pigment is probably associated with the special colour of that cultivar."
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Initial post
11 JUL 10 by
Meryl
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HMF's description of this rose includes "strong fragrance". Botanica rates its fragrance as "very little" to "none". Even allowing for the wide variation in people's perception of odours, both can't be right. Which is (for most people) correct?
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#1 of 2 posted
11 JUL 10 by
Jay-Jay
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Very little to none! is my experience.
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#2 of 2 posted
14 JUL 10 by
Cass
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