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'Rosa luciae onoei' rose Reviews & Comments
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Initial post
9 JUN 08 by
Unregistered Guest
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What are the references for the names 'Yakachinensis' and R. wichurana 'Yakachinensis? I have never seen these names except at this site.
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Initial post
18 JUN 07 by
Unregistered Guest
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Re. the entry Rosa Yakachinensis, this is probably what is known as R. yakushimaensis. It is an alpine form of Rosa onoei collected on Yakushima island off the south coast of Kyushu, Japan. It was first named R. yakualpina. It is or has been in the bonsai trade in California as Yakushimaibara (the rose from Yaku island). It should probably be called Rosa 'Yakushima' or R. onei 'Yakushima'. Small, white, delicate single flowers about 12.5 mm in diameter. Leaves with narrow leaflets and in scale with the small flowers. The stems larger and not in scale with the tiny flowers and leaves. Eventually forms a 1 to 2 meter high tangle. Very painful prickles which break off in the skin. Has been used as a parent
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#1 of 7 posted
19 JUN 07 by
 Cass
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Thank you, Fred, for this background.
You gave me the entré to the International Organization for Plant Information database to search out the current "accepted" name - - the query pages is http://www.bgbm.org/IOPI/GPC/query.asp There I found that the IOPI is listing Rosa yukualpina as a synonym of Rosa onoei var. onoei, along with these synonyms:
Rosa micro-onoei Nakai
Rosa sikokiana Koidz.
Rosa hakoensis var. Onoei (Makino) Koidz.
Rosa luciae var. onoei (Makino) Momiy. ex Ohwi
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#2 of 7 posted
19 JUN 07 by
Unregistered Guest
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It is my impression that Rosa yakualpina while belonging to R. onoei is considerably smaller than typical R. onoei var. onoei and is worthy of recognitions as a clonal cultivar selection, which it is. At least in California it is not a variable group of R. onoei seedlings, it is clonally propagated descendants of the original collection made on the peak of Yakushima island. So while the IOPI determination putting it as a synonym of R. onoei var onoei may be botanicly correct it ignores the horticultural importance of this particular clone. It would be similar to saying 'Old Blush' is a synonym of Rosa chinensis. Old Blush is a form of R. chinensis but is not typical of the original R. chinensis.
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#3 of 7 posted
19 JUN 07 by
Cass
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Do I understand you correctly...akin to R. omeiensis 'Pteracantha'?
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#4 of 7 posted
19 JUN 07 by
Unregistered Guest
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Hello Cass: How did R. omeiensis 'Pteracantha' enter into this? It is not related to R. yakualpina, or R. onoei 'Yakushima'. This rose is a natural miniature member of the Synstylae related to R. wichurana and R. luciae and more distantly to R. multiflora.
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#5 of 7 posted
20 JUN 07 by
Cass
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Hi, Fred. Excuse me for being obscure. I want to make sure I understand your point about R. yakushimaensis. You said, "[it] is worthy of recognitions as a clonal cultivar selection."
Yes, I see that it is a variant of the species, georgraphically isolated. I see that it was used by Louis Lens in breeding. I see that it is in trade in California for bonsai, presumably vegetatively propagated.
My question is for your confirmation whether you think such species cultivar selections should be listed separately from the species. I mention R. omeiensis 'Pteracantha' as an analogous species cultivar selection (although I believe several forms may actually by in commerce.)
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#6 of 7 posted
20 JUN 07 by
Unregistered Guest
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Cass: Oh, I see. . I believe cultivar selections should be both listed separately from the species and also under the species not just lumped into a species, implying that the cultivar is just such and such species. So the rose in question would have an entry under each of its various published names and cultivar names with notes that it is a clonal selection of R. onoei var. onoei. And the species name would also lead you to the cultivar: R. onoei var. onoei 'Yakushima'. I seem to recall that Modern Roses doesn't list species clones under their respective species. My suggestion may cause confusion as to which is the correct name to use at a rose show 'Yakushima' or Rosa onoei var. onoei 'Yakushima'. Don't know the ARS rules on that.
My start of this rose, as 'Yakushimaibara' came from Western Hills Nursery years ago.
Fred
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#7 of 7 posted
21 JUN 07 by
Cass
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Fred, thanks for that clear explanation.
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This should be R. luciae onoei (not onori). It is short for Rosa luciae variety onoei or Rosa luciae subspecies onoei. Under this variety or subspecies belongs 'Yakushima Ibara' the very prickly shrub or mini climber grown by bonsai specialists and growers of mini roses for its tiny white single flowers and small leaves. The name, means "Yaku island rose". It was collected on the heights of Yakushima island off the south coast of Kyushu, Japan, brought into cultivation and named as a species, Rosa yakualpina, in the 1930's. Somewhat later it was lumped into the broader species concepts of R. onoei and R. lucieae var. onoei. The original clone seems to be in cultivation plus seedlings. Fred Boutin |
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Thank you sir ! It is always a pleasure to have experts participate in HelpMeFind.
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PS Fred, are you having a problem logging into HelpMeFind ?
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