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"Katie Pianto's Rose" Reviews & Comments
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Initial post
24 DEC 15 by
Damo
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I have been trying to identify a rose that might just be "Katie Pianto's Rose". My plant grows where a hedge of mixed hybrid musk roses once grew (the last was removed many years ago).
If the rose I have here is in fact "Katie Pianto's Rose" it got here by being used as a rootstock by some nursery (my guess is from Hedgerow Rose Nursery back when they were at Tumbarumba, NSW). The plant appeared after the grafted HM's were taken out.
The plant grows in full-sun & is rarely watered. After a spectacular flush of blooms we see no more blooms in our short growing season!
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Approximately when - or even what decade - were the plants removed Damo?
I have Hedgerow catalogues for 1999, 2002, 2004, 2009 and 2010.
I have just had a quick look through the 1999 cat and they were stocking 'Ringlet'.
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#2 of 12 posted
24 DEC 15 by
Damo
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I have 'Ringlet' (not for much longer though) & it is definitely not the same as this rose (blooms, foliage & growth habit are very different) & unfortunately I'm not 100% certain this plant has originated from Hedgerow. Wherever it is from & whatever it is, it has been in the yard since c. 2005 - not earlier than 2003 - & has the potential to become massive like the plants on HMF.
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It is of interest that Alister Clark in the 1938 reference for 'Ringlet' said ....'Ringlet' should be grown, as it is most distinct and free, and should surely make a stock for nurserymen to work on.
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#4 of 12 posted
24 DEC 15 by
Damo
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IMHO that would be the best use for 'Ringlet'. ;-) LOL Although having said that, my plant of 'Ringlet' had strange blooms this Spring that took on a very "hand-painted" look that I have not seen it display before! (see below).
The rose in my photos above is far more garden worthy!
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The 1936 and 2003 references for 'Ringlet' both mention this flecking.
If you get a quiet moment over Christmas, can you (or another grower??) be more specific on exactly how 'Ringlet' and "Katie Pianto's Rose" differ.
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#6 of 12 posted
24 DEC 15 by
Damo
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So you think my rose is "Katie Pianto's Rose"?
Oh & as for the flecking on 'Ringlet' that is very interesting. I had never seen it in the 5 years I've grown it!
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Yes, I think it is, Damo. But keep in mind "Katie Pianto's Rose" is a foundling name and we are still searching for its real name.
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#8 of 12 posted
25 DEC 15 by
Damo
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Excellent! Thanks Patricia. I hope someday the true identity comes to light as I am using this rose in crosses now & in the future!
I'll get back soon with 'Ringlet' vs "Katie Pianto's Rose" details! :-)
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From the photos, Ringlet's foliage is different enough to exclude it. However, I have seen neither in person.
But, also from the photos, this "Katie Pianto's Rose" appears to be influenced by tea, multiflora, and china. If I had to estimate, of course.
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Thanks Michael. It is good to have others' opinions. I had made a note that it might not have any multiflora in it because of the glandular, not hairy stipules. But I will double check this point on my plants later in the day.
If Girija is watching, it would be great to have her thoughts on this rose, particularly in relation to the 1980 reference (.... an Indian species rose which has long pointed buds, single pink blooms and lovely light green glossy foliage.)
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I'm not sure that applies to complex hybrids, if that is what it is. Dortmund is derived from Rugosa, Wichurana, and some moderns stemming from multiflora types. Some seedlings are completely glandular. As in, the bristles even give off that cinnamon smell. Others are like Dortmund, and few rare ones are mostly smooth.
In the case of this rose, I am unsure. Like I said, I have not witnessed it in person.
Were there popular Mutliflora/Wichurana types popularizes in AUS way back when?
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#12 of 12 posted
2 OCT 17 by
Damo
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Just a bit of an update on this rose.
For the first time last season I saw a second (much lighter) flush of blooms on my plant & hips formed. I collected the hips & now have about 10 - still very young but strong - seedlings from it so they might give us clues as to what is behind it...or maybe not!
I noticed too that someone down the road from us grows this rose over an arch at their front gate so it certainly gets around.
Up to now, I have had no success using "Katie Pianto's" rose in crosses but will keep trying in the future. In quite a few attempts hips have not set with foreign pollen & its pollen hasn't worked on other roses.
FWIW I believe this rose is a cross between R. canina & R. wichuraiana based on blooms & plant.
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A member, Pam, has recently visited New Zealand and noted there a similarity between the "Balmain Rose" and Alister Clark's 'Ringlet'. She has asked privately if these roses could be the same.
I only grow "Katie Pianto's Rose" (which I believe was found in Balmain, NSW and taken to New Zealand) but my thoughts are:
Both 'Ringlet' and "Katie Pianto's Rose" are said to have some rebloom. 'Ringlet' seems to bloom in larger clusters, with a more defined pink edge to the bloom, and seems to be a smaller plant, with wider leaves. Both Pam and I are seeking observations from others who know both roses.
I find the 1980 reference of interest, wherein Katie wrote of "an Indian species rose which has long pointed buds, single pink blooms and lovely light green glossy foliage", but there is no way of knowing if she was referring to the rose that eventually became known as "Katie Pianto's Rose"
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May we have more details about the reference in 1980 to the Indian reference?
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That one sentence is all we have Girija. Katie Pianto lived in South Australia and had this magnificent rose growing in her garden. She never passed on, to my knowledge, what it was or where it came from. I believe Ross Roses might have later put it on the market and for the want of a name, temporarily called it "Katie Pianto's Rose". In the 1980 reference, Katie was writing about flower arranging.
Because of her words "an Indian species", I wondered it the rose might be familiar to you?
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No ,I am afraid it's not familiar. It doesn't look to us like a rosé species, and certainly not an Indian rosé species. Sorry we cannot be more helpful. It's a lovely rosé.
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We are sorry, Patricia, this doesn't ring a bell at all. We know of no soft pink Indian rosé species which grows like this rosé. It's a lovely rosé and bush. Does it look like a species to you?
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Thank you Girija and Viru. I only have just a few species roses and wouldn't really know others even if I fell over them. However I do appreciate your reply. I will try and add more charactistics to "Katie Pianto's Rose" later in the day.
Characteristics now added. Seeking more input from other growers.
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Ive concluded that Australia and NZ are radioactive. That rose is HUGE. So many giant roses there!
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Yep. Come and see them. There is a Heritage Roses in Australia conference in Tasmania coming up.
Pre Conference Garden Tour --- 27, 28, 29,30 November & 1 December, 2014
In House Conference --- 1, 2, 3, & 4 December, 2014
Post Conference Garden Tour --- 5 & 6 December, 2014
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haha, I'm too broke. I decided to go back to uni for a masters.
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Does anybody have any information at all, or even ideas on what class of rose "Katie Pianto's Rose" (possibly synonymous with the "Balmain Rose") may be? Mr. and Mrs. Pianto were Hon. Librlarians of the Rose Society of South Australia in the 1960s and lived in Toorak Gardens, Adelaide. I believe this rose may have been given to Katie Pianto and was originally found around Balmain, a suburb of Sydney, but have never been able to find any proof of this. I understand it was imported into New Zealand from Australia in the 1980's under the study name of the "Balmain Rose". Because of its smooth pedicels, and stipules which are minutely glandular but with no hairs, I feel it is not of multiflora extraction. The leaves have a china smoothness feel. The styles may be separated so possibly not synstylae. For me, "Katie Pianto's Rose" was the most beautiful rose in David Ruston's garden at Renmark (and he has thousands of roses). I have planted three of them and would dearly love to know more about this rose.
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I found this rose growing on a fence in Merimbula (the far south coast of NSW).
However the woman who owned the property was from Sydney and could possibly have brought it with her.
I will make some enquiries as to where they originally lived and what name they knew the rose by.
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Thank you so much Sue. We all await any news with much interest.
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