HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'Rosa Indica sulphurea' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 109-508
most recent 23 MAR 18 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 23 MAR 18 by bumblekim
I have reason to believe that this rose is the same as Louise de Savoie, "light yellow tea". There is a watercolor in a book called Les Roses by Ferdinand Rembert from 1861-63, page 338. There are 3 names for each flower pictured in the bouquet of roses:
<<One of the roses in the pic is not a rose but a "Hellebore/Renonculaccea/"Rose de Noel" (="Lenten Rose"?)>>

Focus on the fully double yellow shown. The names listed are the French ("Théa" meaning tea-"ish" or "feminine tea"), then "Louise de Savoie", and then "Rosa Indica. All refer to that same yellow rose there. I believe that indicates some link to the rose in your listing for Louise de Savoie indicating a "light yellow tea".

This seems to line up time wise with the Ducher-attributed Louise de Savoy from 1854.

You have your Thea Lutea ("yellow tea") cross listed with "Indica sulphurea".

I have researched links between the person Louise de Savoie and I do not believe it honors the first Louise de Savoie a french noble living 1476 to 1531. I have a feeling it more likely was named to commemorate another: Marie-Josephine-Louise de Savoie (1753-1810) who at one point was "queen" of France and wife of Louis XVIII. There are many portraits of her with roses, and in particular a very double yellow in a portrait by Joseph Boze 1786 and then another where she wears a head garland of yellow roses. The other portraits show pink roses.
There could have been a royalist trend during a certain period and the name may have been added to an already existing yellow tea. I have a feeling in those days not all roses under a certain name were genetic clones, I feel they may have used seedlings which resembled an already-named rose and grouped and marketed them under the name name. Was "yellow china" a "type" or a group of actual clones? At any rate I suspect that Indica Lutea, Yellow Tea, and Louise de Savoy could very well be synonyms. I would like to hear opinions!
REPLY
Reply #1 of 1 posted 23 MAR 18 by Margaret Furness
Good sleuthing! I don't know those roses though.
REPLY
Discussion id : 103-217
most recent 23 JUL 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 23 JUL 17 by CybeRose
Journal of Horticulture and Practical Gardening (n.s.) 17: 99 (Aug 5, 1869)
ON THE PROSPECTS OF HYBRIDISATION.
R. T. Clarke
The production of a yellow will be more of a task. As seed-bearing parents let us take the old yellow China; it is still to be had, though very scarce;

Tea Noisettes might be crossed with the old semi-double yellow China to produce an intermediate effect.
REPLY
Discussion id : 102-781
most recent 16 JUL 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 16 JUL 17 by CybeRose
Thomas Rivers Jr.: Rose Amateur's Guide p. 76 (1837)
The yellow Tea or yellow Chinese Rose, for they are one and the same, is placed here, as it has decidedly more of the habit and appearance of the Tea-scented Rose than of the Chinese: its smooth glossy leaves and faint odour of tea sufficiently show its affinity.
REPLY
Discussion id : 102-287
most recent 8 JUL 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 8 JUL 17 by CybeRose
Le Bon jardinier: almanach pour l'anneé 1821 (1820) pp.808-809

M. Noisette a rapporté d'Angleterre la rose multiflore écarlate, *multiflora coccinea*, et beaucoup d'autres, telles que quatre roses mousseuses nouvelles, etc.

Cette année le docteur Cartier a obtenu dans ses semis de la rose dite bengale, une rose jaune double, qui M. Noisette, beaucoup d'autres amateur et moi avons vu avec bien de l'intérét. J'attendrai à l'année prochaine, pour en donner une description plus détaillée.

This item is included in the discussion of Rosa multiflora. According to Desportes' 'Rosetum Gallicum' (1828), Noisette imported the double pink R. multiflora from England in 1817. This is presumably the year Cartier raised his Bengale Jaune. Otherwise, there is no apparent reason for Desportes to mention it in this place.
REPLY
© 2024 HelpMeFind.com