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'Souvenir du Docteur Jamain' rose Reviews & Comments
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This rose seems to need/take ages to settle. Seven years after planting it is now developing more canes and laterals than before and blooming a lot and repeatedly. Seems to like our too dry and too hot summers, the second on a row and temps over 38°C.
But alas, due too those same weather conditions, it is (au contraire to normal) very sparse with its gorgeous scent.
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Jay-Jay hello. I was just looking here for some advice with regard to this cultivar. I planted it in a partially shaded spot in very rocky earth in November 2022, bare root grafted onto Laxa ex. Loubert. We’re in the lower Cévennes ( more like a zone 9 these days), dry winter and hot and dry summer. First season it grew reasonably well, small, but with an early flush of beautiful exquisitely shaped small flowers with, as confirmed here, a great scent. I’ve read that it is a variety that needs regular watering and feeding and it does get pampered with some dried sheep’s manure. This second season I was expecting more, of course, and I had hoped to have a short climber after 2-3 years as most old varieties including HP’s thrive here. Well this second season is not looking great. A flush and then defoliation with black spot and now end of season the plant is smaller and looking pretty pathetic. Last autumn I successfully struck a cutting and nurtured that like a hen with her egg, and finally planted out in March. So effectively I pruned it. I’m wondering if this cultivar doesn’t like being pruned? Your experience and any advice would be greatly appreciated. The cutting, after 5 months in the ground, is tiny and barely changed though the leaves look healthy. The original plant is around 60cm tall. I’m toying with the idea of moving it to an area where the earth may be less rocky and deeper. Cheers, Peter. Next door is a modern variety that is thriving (Gentle Hermione) though behind that cultivar there is Graham Thomas which is also very small.
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#2 of 3 posted
3 SEP by
 Jay-Jay
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Good afternoon Peter,
Our plant still keeps small. Never developed into a climber... not even into a bush.
A few laterals and every year or so a new cane develops and an old one dies. It flowers sparsely, but repeatedly.
We also have just one to two feet of fertile topsoil on boulder clay. And it stands in partial shade too.
Next to it stands (discussed/questioned by some) Rose de Rescht, that thrives. Just as William Lobb.
I would call Souvenir du Docteur Jamain a "weak brother" in our garden. But it survived till now.
I'm not much of a help to You alas.
Maybe someone else can join in with some advice.
Enjoy Fall!
Best Regards, Jay-Jay.
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Jay-Jay good evening
Thank you for your thorough reply, which at least unfortunately confirms what I have experienced isn’t unique, and that sadly this cultiver will not become a climber. As you say, yours isn’t even a shrub. I will cherish it and it’s offspring as well as I can, for the flowers are one of my favourites. Kind regards, Peter
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Available from - Famous Roses
https://en.famousroses.eu/fr-fr/products/souvenir-du-docteur-jamain-climbing-rose
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Initial post
25 SEP 21 by
Aerith
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Available from - High Country Roses
https://www.highcountryroses.com/
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Initial post
8 MAR 20 by
Lesky
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There is a listing and accompanying photo with description and growing advice for Souvenir du Docteur Jamain on p. 252 of Martin, Claire G.,"100 Old Roses for the American Garden," (New York: Workman Publishing, 1999). I do not see this reference noted for this rose, just wanted to share the source.
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#1 of 7 posted
8 MAR 20 by
jedmar
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We can add the reference if you have the text - this book is not in my library.
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#2 of 7 posted
9 MAR 20 by
Lesky
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Hi, what do you need to add it, exactly, besides the citation? Also, I can upload a photo of the cover of the book or of the entry if that would help.
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#3 of 7 posted
9 MAR 20 by
jedmar
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The book is already listed on Publications including a small pic of the cover. We would need the citation incl. page number.
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#4 of 7 posted
9 MAR 20 by
Lesky
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Here is the citation with page number:
Martin, Claire G.,"100 Old Roses for the American Garden," (New York: Workman Publishing, 1999); p. 252.
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#5 of 7 posted
10 MAR 20 by
jedmar
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Sorry, I mean the relevant text in the book
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#6 of 7 posted
14 MAR 20 by
Lesky
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Text: (1999 publication photo below) "A much overlooked selection, this Docteur catches both the eye and nose with its unusual deep color and superb perfume when in bloom. 'Souvenir du Docteur Jamain' is equally good as a shrub or trained onto a support as a climber. The bendable canes lend themselves to training onto a pillar or tripod, and you get a more easily contained shrub along with the added benefit of increased bloom. Whoever the good doctor was, he is remembered by a fine rose.
"The thin canes of 'Souvenir du Docteur Jamain' will arch out to 8 feet or more, with a nearly equal spread, and when given support they can attain 12 feet. New canes are plum-colored with oval, pointed chartreuse green foliage edged with antique bronze. The smooth gray-green mature canes carry only the occasional small red-green prickle. Round, blood red buds are produced in small clusters and open to fully petaled, ruffled, velvety crimson-to-plum, cupped flowers with bright yellow stamens at their centers. There is an occasional white streak, known as quilling, which tags the velvety texture of the petals. The fragrance is strong and sweet of Cabbage Rose perfume. Rebloom is good in spring and fall, though only intermittent the rest of the season. The foliage is prone to problems such as mildew, so be on the alert if that's a concern in your area.
"The deep burgundy tones of the loosely petaled flowers will suffer without some protection from the hottest direct sun. Try planting the good Docteur where he will spill over a whitewashed brick wall. The contrast between the wall and the deep claret and crimson colors of this cultivar will cause your garden visitors to gasp in amazement.
HYBRIDIZER: Francois Lacharme, Lyons, France
SUITABILITY: all levels
AVAILABILITY: mail-order
STATURE & HABIT: warm climate, 8' X 8'; cool climate, 8' x 8'
FRAGRANCE: strong, sweet Old Rose
USES: border, hedge, climber, cutting
PARENTAGE: 'General Jacqueminot' X 'Charles Lefebvre'
DISEASES: mildew
HARDINESS: hot climate, good; cold climate, good
BLOOM: remontant"
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#7 of 7 posted
14 MAR 20 by
jedmar
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Thank you, reference added!
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