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'Catherine Mermet blanche' rose Reviews & Comments
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I have a rose being sold as Catherine Mermet from Loubert and The Bride can't be a white sport of this rose. Catherine Mermet in commerce in Europe is a Hybrid Tea without any fragrance. She is an imposter and not the original rose. The Bride looks like a real Tea so probably she is the sport of the real Catherine Mermet. I really wonder why nurseries keep selling varieties that are clearly not the original rose
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#1 of 4 posted
5 AUG by
 jedmar
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Because they do not know better, because there have not been genetical comparisons to ascertain the true varieties.
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"Because that's the name the public ask for it by." Jean Ducher, Francis Dubreuil etc etc.
Or "Because an overseas expert calls it by that name." Eg. Sanguinea.
We keep trying.
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It's very discouraging to start a garden full with Teas and Tea Noisettes and to find out they aren't the original roses. What I don't understand is that when you read the descriptions of the 19th century and early 20th century catalogs and rose books you get a good idea of how a variety should look. Still so many today are obviously imposters. I like the term "in commerce" you guys use so it's almost certain the rose isn't the original. I'm making lists of my fall order at Loubert and I saw the Bride. So exquisitely Tea shaped. She can't be a sport of the Mermet in commerce. The rose world has a lot of Byzantine intrigue. Thx for the reply, Jedmar too
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Here's hoping you get a reversion to the real CM.
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It seems a change in attribution is in order. From The Weekly Florists' Review, vol. 7, 1900, p. 4:
As is well known, The Bride was also a sport from Mermet. This sport originated with Mr. James Taplin, Maywood, N.J., who sold it to John M. May, Summit, N.J., by whom it was introduced. Niphetos and Cornelia Cook were the white tea roses depended upon before the advent of The Bride.
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I have added the reference, but haven’t yet changed the discoverer. Who was the author of the 1900 reference?
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The note begins with "Replying to T.L.," as if replying to a letter, and is in an area at the beginning of the issue where there are miscellaneous notes, some signed or with initials, others not. I do not find a letter on this in an earlier issue from "T.L.", so the presumption is that it's a postal communication received by the publication. The placement, and the "Replying," both strongly imply that the note is from the publication's editor, "G.L. Grant, Editor and Manager."
Further research yielded the following authoritative note, from James Taplin himself: "The Bride will, I believe, be the best paying white rose in cultivation for in-door culture; but, like its parent, the Catherine Mermet, I presume it will be of little use outside. This sport originated with me, and I at once saw the value of it, though I did not push its sale. The stock was sold to a good judge, and is meeting with great favor both here and in England," from the Report of the Michigan State Pomological Society, vol. 16, 1886, pp. 445-446. The "good judge," of course, was commercial introducer May.
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Initial post
24 NOV 23
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* This post deleted by user *
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This reference, and photo is already listed.
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The buds take rather long to develop, are very pointed but get fatter and fatter before opening (ending up looking rather like an onion). They start nodding as they get bigger. I blew into the centre of the flowers to tease them open today (early June 2022). They are beautifully formed with reflexed petals, gleaming white except for the faintest hint of pink at the edge of the petals. It is rainy and cool and the soft thin petals don't take too well to rain. The scent is delicious and addictive -- a variant of tea but very sweet and slightly fermented (in a good way). It is quite similar to the scent of Mrs Louis Lens. I plant to prune this plant very little and hope that with time it will grow as tall as my pot-grown Lady Hillingdon (bush) has. The nodding flowers will then be displayed to full advantage.
UPDATE: on the second flush the blooms were less heavy and help upright. The plant is also growing more vertically and spreading less.
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#1 of 5 posted
22 SEP 22 by
HubertG
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I came across a labelled bush of 'The Bride' in the Barbara May Garden in Rookwood Cemetery today. I took the opportunity to smell it and it does have an absolutely delicious, addictive scent. Hard to describe but it did remind me a bit of the freesia-like scent of 'Mrs Herbert Stevens'. The few flowers were large and quite high pointed and did remind me of the early descriptions comparing 'Maman Cochet' to the Mermet roses. I want this rose for its scent alone now!
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#2 of 5 posted
22 SEP 22 by
Hamanasu
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I'm glad you like it and also that there is a source of wood elsewhere in the world. Rookwood must be a treasure trove for teas. I visited once, more than a decade ago, when I lived in Sydney. I found it (Rookwood) a magical place, and I wish I had known about teas back then.
My The Bride looks like it has set a hip (it's autumn here). Open-pollinated, with General Schablikine, Devoniensis, and Lady Hillingdon in the vicinity (well, and hybrid teas too). I wonder if anything will come of it.
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Ross roses have a stock plant, and will bud on request.
Of course, all plant material at Rookwood is protected by law. It took a while for us to persuade the Rookwood guardians to send Teas to Renmark and from there to other places, because they were concerned that the roses that aren't likely to be considered garden-worthy these days would put people off old roses.
I think you can still buy budwood from Ruston's (they don't have The Bride). Often the best source of rarities is HRIA members.
For individuals, exporting overseas and importing from overseas is out of the question financially and in terms of (entirely appropriate) quarantine restrictions.
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#4 of 5 posted
23 SEP 22 by
HubertG
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Margaret, that's good to know that Ross Roses have a stock plant. I'll make a request for a plant of it hopefully for next winter.
Hamanasu, I'd definitely be planting whatever seeds you might get. Good luck!
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#5 of 5 posted
12 JUN 23 by
Hamanasu
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I now grow both Catherine Mermet and The Bride (ex Trevor White). It's early days still, as it's my first year with CM, but if my CM is correct, I have considerable reservations that my TB can be correct. They are just too different. TB is much much fuller, with much thinner petal texture, and its leaves have a tendency to curl back at the margins in a way that CM leaves do not. It also strikes me that my TB looks identical to pictures and descriptions of Mrs Foley Hobbs (not pics of Mrs Dudley Cross masquerading as Mrs Foley Hobbs). My hunch is that TB that used to be available for sale in England (it's no longer obtainable) was really a misnamed Mrs Foley Hobbs. I cannot be certain without growing the two side by side, but I'm 90% certain my TB is not a sport of the rose sold as CM in Europe.
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