I'll give it a shot Cass, and ask if Pat and Margaret can also do this with more established plants from their part of the country.
I saw some well known roses looking quite tricky in Margaret's garden recently - She has magic soil and there's been an abundance of late rain & the roses were growing very vigorously. There was doubling, trebling, quadrupling on some of the blooms that made them unrecognisable! Beaute Inconstante quilled, ruffled and quartered for instance.

Hi, Billy. I'll take shots of the botanical details and send them to you today. In the hot weather, the blooms are more ragged. They always open wide. The one shot I took at Vintage shows a little form, but I always miss that in my garden. My plant is in full sun, whereas their plant has a western exposure only - - which would have been a better idea!