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Tomartyr - I have enjoyed the photos of this park so much - and enjoyed reading about it too. Thank you for posting them all. Are there other old unnamed roses in the garden? Do you know the story behind 'Courage' - was it an identification, or was it a new planting of an old rose?
Patricia
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#1 of 6 posted
23 DEC 12 by
Tomartyr
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I gather there was little if anything worth saving when they discovered the remains of the old rose arbour in 2006. The garden managers endeavoured to replant the arbour with older roses, some of which might have been popular in the 1920s. I'm not 100% sure, but I think 'Courage' is probably an example. I overlooked making a definitive list of the roses in the arbour, but I shall do so on my next visit although I'm not wholly confident in the accuracy of the labelling. I noted one glaring example - a pink rose labelled 'Guinee' - about which I have emailed the garden managers as 'Guinee' is not included anywhere in the garden, therefore it is not simply a matter of the labels being misplaced.
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If there was little there in 2006, I feel that it is unlikely that a 1923 hybrid tea would have survived.
It may be possible that your photos are of Mallerin's 1941 HT 'Courage, Poulsen's 1997 HT 'Courage', or even Meilland's 1990 floribunda 'Courage'. I guess one would have to ascertain which nursery the replacement plants came from, and what 'Courage' they stocked.
Patricia
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#3 of 6 posted
23 DEC 12 by
Tomartyr
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It is possible they sourced some older roses from private gardens. I researched the various roses named 'Courage' and from the descriptions I thought the 1923 McGredy rose the most likely, although I cannot be sure. It certainly isn't the Meilland and I don't think it is the Poulsen.
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I understand. Thanks Tomartyr
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#5 of 6 posted
4 SEP 13 by
Tomartyr
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Patricia, you are right and I am wrong. I finally managed to locate someone at QLDC who was able to confirm the true identity of the rose 'Courage' in this garden and as you suspected it is the 1990 Meilland floribunda 'MEIcairma', which they sourced from Tasman Bay Roses. Now that I have eaten humble pie and wiped the egg from my face, might I say in my defence that when I observed the rose in bloom, each flower was on its own single stem and I was completely convinced it was an HT. (Gulp)
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So many times in this search to save old roses, we have all eaten humble pie. I no longer eat eggs for brekkie any more as I usually get enough with the pie. Well done to you for tracking down the source of the rose. I think you are a fine rosarian.
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I am very interested in the rose 'Courage' particularly since it might be the McGredy one. I have been working over the past 5 years to collect McGredy bred roses for an extensive collection in my garden just out of Hastings. Sam McGredy IV is very supportive of the project and officially opened the garden in 2009. I would really appreciate the opportunity to obtain budwood from this rose at the end of the year if at all possible.
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Good to see your voice on HelpMefind Georgina. It sounds as though Sam II and Sam III roses are tugging at you, as well as the Sam IV ones.
Patricia
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Yes I have been hunting for all of the McGredy bred roses right from the start but in NZ the II and III ones are very hard to locate
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I'll reply further under the rose 'Courage' (and also 'Hector Deane' and 'Rubaiyat')
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Georgina, Patricia's suggestion for begging prunings of the roses you desire is an excellent one. She mentioned wrapping them in damp paper, which is what I created this blog to illustrate and demonstrate.
http://pushingtheroseenvelope.blogspot.com/2011/05/wrapping-cuttings.html
Please feel free to begin at the start and follow the posts through to the most recent for all the "how to" information and further tweaks. It is honestly the easiest, most successful methods of rooting rose cuttings, short of a mist propagator, I've ever used. The idea originated there in Australia (all explained in the first entry), so I know it works there, presuming the material is the right condition and the steps are tweaked to fit your particular conditions. It's best accomplished in late winter to mid spring, so you should be able to become familiar with it in time for the proper cuttings of the varieties you seek to become available. Feel free to email me through either the blog or HMF should you need further information or have any questions. Good luck with your search! Kim
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Thanks Kim, I do take a lot of cuttings but often find some of the teas and hybrid teas a bit more temperamental hence being willing to be patient and wait for budwood but I will follow the wisdom of others and try to get cuttings now as a first step. Plus will have a look to see how you do your propagating. I use the bag method that Mike Schoup (spelling may not be correct) taught me.
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You're welcome Georgina. Mike's baggie method can work quite well, but it never hurts to have as many tools as possible at your disposal!
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I did try to send a comment on your blog which may have got through to you via email to say I really can see the benefits of your method and will definitely be trying it. Also wondered if you were likely to be at Sangerhausen or coming over to NZ for the World Fed convention in Nov. Have now worked out who is linked to the garden in Wanaka with 'Courage' and the request has been made for cutting material.
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Thanks, Georgina. I'll look into why your message didn't arrive. No, I won't be at Sangerhausen. I'm glad you've initiated the process for your propagating material.
Here are two other sites which might help you significantly increase your chances of success. Burling Leong is the very talented owner of Burlington Roses. She worked for Ralph Moore at Sequoia Nursery here in California for thirty-five plus years. She is an incredibly skilled propagator and has created a wonderful article for The Heritage Rose Foundation about her preferred budding method, Chip Budding.
http://www.heritagerosefoundation.org/4resources/Rosa%20Mundi/10/RM10_Leong.pdf
She uses the variety, Pink Clouds, as her favorite, and that one isn't available in Australia. She has advised The Santa Clarita Rose Society about using Fortuniana with this method and they've produced a video detailing the method. I know Fortuniana is available there.
http://scvrs.homestead.com/BuddingUltimate.html
If you aren't successful in finding someone either "in the trade" or someone from the rose societies to help bud the resistant ones, hopefully, these two links will help you accomplish it yourself. Armed with several methods of rooting and budding, you should have some greatly improved chances of success. I pray the garden containing the roses you desire is as excited about providing you the material as you are about including them in your garden.
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I am very fortunate that Sue from D&S Nursery which is near us in Hawke's Bay, NZ has been doing my budding and Sam McGredy and Doug Grant recommended her because of her 'clean' budwood. But I really should learn how to do it myself for those odd roses that I would like to have an extra of for a back up. I keep a Blog too but mainly just to help people know what I get up to in the garden http://mcgredyrosegarden.blogspot.co.nz/
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