HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 14 NOV 20 SHOW ALL
Initial post 3 MAY 15 by Give me caffeine
Found something interesting yesterday. An experienced grower in South Carolina claims that although the parent cultivar 'Zéphirine Drouhin' was always badly disease-prone for him, 'Kathleen Harrop' is almost always healthy without being sprayed.


That page doesn't mention the no-spray aspect, but his commercial website (linked from that page) makes it clear that he doesn't spray in his own garden.

It's odd that the sport would have markedly different resistance to disease, but it appears to be the case, at least in some locations.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 14 NOV 20 by Hartwood
I have the same experience with these two roses in my garden. Kathleen Harrop and Zephirine Drouhin grew side by side ... same soil, exposure, and care. ZD was prone to blackspot and was leafless by July, even with fairly spotty application of systemic fungicide. KH is nearly disease free with the same spray schedule, and it blooms more than ZD ever did. ZD is long gone, because I grew weary of her underperformance. KH is still here, and I am very happy with it.
most recent 5 MAY 20 SHOW ALL
Initial post 23 JUN 13 by Tammy-EastTN-6a
Glenn Dale is listed as both a rambler and large flowered climber. Can anyone clarify whether or not it has any repeat bloom? Thanks!
Reply #1 of 4 posted 24 JUN 13 by Patricia Routley
There are a few references which may help you. Take a look at the 1927, 1930 and 1935 ones.
Otherwise, I am sure a grower of 'Glenn Dale' will be able to help in due course. The problem is remembering to look for any repeat blooms.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 24 JUN 13 by Tammy-EastTN-6a
Thanks Patricia, I'll do that. I'm just trying to decide where to plant it. I like to stagger my climbers so that ever other one is a repeat bloomer :)

Reply #3 of 4 posted 29 MAY 14 by Hartwood
Glenn Dale has been in my garden since 2008, and I have never had any repeat on it. It flowers after Climbing American Beauty ... concurrently with Alchymist, Albertine, Alberic Barbier, and Ghislaine de Feligonde ... and before American Pillar, Dr. W. Van Fleet, and Arcata Pink Globe. Hope this helps with your progression of bloom.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 5 MAY 20 by Rose_Insanity
My family has grown GD for at least 75 years, since my mom, when she about 10 (and is now 86), was given a cutting from a neighbor's plant. She stuck it in the ground at the end of the porch of her childhood home, and it proceeded to climb up the post and across the porch roof. It is glorious in full bloom. It was one of the reasons I fell in love with roses. It has always bloomed in time for Mother's Day here in E.TN. When I moved out, I took cuttings with me, and have grown it ever since. But in all the years of my life (62, so far), I've seen exactly three blooms anytime other than the Spring flush: once a single bloom, another time, two at once. In both instances, it was during a prolonged, open Fall season, with cool nights, warm days, and late frost. So, to make a short story, GD is not remontant, but once in a great while you might be blessed with a single out-of-season bloom.

most recent 10 JUN 19 SHOW ALL
Initial post 29 SEP 16 by NikosR
I believe the bush form of Paul Lede is extinct (or at least not available in commerce as such) and most probably all photos displayed under this entry should be under cl. Paul Lede. I know for a fact that Oldrosarian's photo of Paul Lede is of the climbing form (from discussions in Gardenweb) and this form has been reintroduced in commerce recently as Mons. Paul Lede by Palantine in Canada from budwood supplied by her. In Europe cl. Paul Lede has been available for long also as Paul Lede.
Reply #1 of 10 posted 3 OCT 16 by Patricia Routley
Interesting. It is fairly easy to prove that a rose is a climber. But a little harder to prove that the little squirt is the original bush for it could be the climber growing in unsuitable conditions. Perhaps comments from others -and the HMF photographers on the height of their bushes might help. I'll send the photographers a private message - there is only four.

To add a little weight to your theory, I note that the same photo has been used for both the climber and bush on the ARS MR site.
Reply #2 of 10 posted 3 OCT 16 by NikosR
Please check out this thread where Old Rosarian (Lynette) discusses her rose.
There's no bush form of Paul Lede under that name in commerce in Europe nor in Australia afaik and I don't believe there's in N. America either. Confusion might stem from this fact since nurseries do not find it necessary to differentiate.
Reply #3 of 10 posted 3 OCT 16 by NikosR
Also please check out this older thread where morrisnoor (Maurizio Usai), a world renown and respected landscape architect and rosarian from Sardinia, Italy mentions that he believes the bush form is extinct.
Reply #4 of 10 posted 3 OCT 16 by Patricia Routley
NikosR, I am sure you are right. I've been gleaning from the books and will add references.
Later edit. Because of your comments, NikosR; the square brackets in the 2001 reference; and the 1965 reference, I have marked this 1902 hybrid tea "believed extinct or lost". I have also moved all photos into the climber file. Anyone who disagrees is most welcome to move them back as that would signify this original bush form might not be extinct.
Reply #5 of 10 posted 7 OCT 16 by Hartwood
Paul Lede was definitely a climber in my garden. I got it from Roses Unlimited in 2007. After putting on size and having a few wonderful years of bloom, it was damaged by severe winter cold three years ago and it never recovered. RIP.
Reply #6 of 10 posted 7 OCT 16 by Patricia Routley
Thanks Hartwood. That justifies moving your photo out of the bush and into the climber.
Reply #7 of 10 posted 12 OCT 16 by Patricia Routley
I have received the following private message from member Alex.m in Austria:

Mine is the original bushform-the height is 70-90cm.
I got it from Eva Kotzmuth the former owner of Giovannis Garden and she maybe got it from Sangerhausen or Martin Weingart.
Giovannis Garden had a huge varitey of very rare roses ( I'm very happy to get many from them)- unfortunatly it dosent exist anymore.
......I know its the last :-( Eva Kotzmuth gave it to me because she know that I will take good care of it. Unfortunatly its a very delicate plant - it dosen´t bloom this year and is a very slow grower. I will talk to a friend of mine who is the owner of a rose nursery in the near (Baumschule Ecker) maybe he will propagate i
Reply #8 of 10 posted 13 OCT 16 by NikosR
That's very interesting! It would be good to know if Alex.m's delicate bush is budded or bare root. Maybe it would benefit from a climate milder than Austria's.
Reply #9 of 10 posted 18 NOV 16 by alex.m.
Usually even delicate chinas like the climate in my garden, but this fellow has special needs and is very easily offended ;-) .
Next season I will try to propagate it with cuttings.
Reply #10 of 10 posted 10 JUN 19 by Thornbush
I have a found rose in California zone 9b that may be Paul Lédé, The undersides of the petals are pink. It opens with a cream top side, apricot at the base of the petals. The stamens are maroon. My rooted cutting makes almost continuous huge, and hugely scented blossoms with maroon stamens. Does this sound like Paul? Or climbing Paul?
most recent 5 JAN 19 SHOW ALL
Initial post 29 DEC 18 by pminor
Hi i am seeking a U.S. source for adelaide d'orleans. You have this rose listed as in your garden. Can you refer me to your source for this beautiful rose?

Thanks so much. Love your pics!!
Reply #1 of 7 posted 29 DEC 18 by Hartwood
I had no idea that this rose isn't more widely available! I saw it all over in England. Mine came from Sequoia ten years ago. It's in a fairly wild portion of my garden ... I need to make sure that it's still there. If it is, I can share with you in the spring.
Reply #2 of 7 posted 29 DEC 18 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Sequoia got it from me. I honestly don't remember where I got it.
Reply #3 of 7 posted 4 JAN 19 by pminor
That would be so cool!! I am happy to pay for postage for cuttings or rooted suckers. It is such a beautiful rose????
Just let me know. I certainly hope it is out there growing on its own. It is a tough rose. I look forward to hearing from you this dpring. Now I will be looking forward to spring!
Thanks so mich!!
Reply #4 of 7 posted 4 JAN 19 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Sorry, I gave it to Sequoia and let mine go. It's very vigorous and takes up a lot of space. The blossoms are beautiful but of course it only blossoms once.
Reply #5 of 7 posted 4 JAN 19 by pminor
Ah sorry to hear that. They are no longer in business l think

Oh well thank you for taking the time I appreciate it

Reply #6 of 7 posted 4 JAN 19 by Hartwood
Remind me in the spring, and I will take cuttings for you.
Reply #7 of 7 posted 5 JAN 19 by pminor
Thanks so much! that is very kind of you and I will be sure to contact you in april.

I appreciate your help!!!
Pat Minor
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