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Erichtonius
most recent 17 MAY 20 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 12 MAY 20 by Erichtonius
‘Cuisse de nymphe émue’ and ‘Félicité Parmentier’ in France.

There is apparently a confusion between a rose sold in France as 'Cuisse de nymphe émue' by several nurseries (Guillot, André Eve, Loubert) and 'Félicité Parmentier'. Their 'Cuisse de nymphe émue', always described as a more colorful 'Cuisse de nymphe’ (Maiden’s Blush), is in fact very different from this one and much paler too ; but it is very similar to 'Félicité Parmentier' and probably identical. This ‘Cuisse de nymphe émue’ is also grown at Bagatelle, in Paris.

Like 'Félicité Parmentier', 'Cuisse de nymphe émue' has light, almost yellowish-green leaves, instead of the greyish blue-green leaves of 'Maiden's Blush' ; small rounded yellowish buds with shorter calix, instead of the slightly more pointed buds and the longer ovoid-shaped calix of 'Maiden's Blush' ; very double and well-formed flowers of clear flesh pink, shaped almost like a ball and fading to cream at the edges, where 'Maiden's Blush' has flowers of a "soft, warm blush-pink on opening" as described by Graham Thomas, in an informal shape. What Graham Thomas said about 'Félicité Parmentier' applies to our 'Cuisse de nymphe émue' : "No other variety in this section has such densely packed buds, opening to such full-flowers of clear flesh pink".

In addition to that, the rose sold by Loubert as 'Félicité Parmentier' is quite surely not the right one. Contrary to the others, Guillot and Eve, where 'Cuisse de nymphe émue' and 'Félicité Parmentier' seem to be the same rose, Loubert has effectively three distinct roses : their 'Cuisse de nymphe émue' resembles the right 'Félicité Parmentier', their 'Cuisse de nymphe' seems to be the right one (Maiden’s Blush), and their 'Félicité Parmentier' is a third Alba rose.

The Alba rose sold by Loubert as 'Félicité Parmentier’ is actually very close to 'Cuisse de nymphe' (Maiden's Blush). Yet there are some differences between them. In comparison with ‘Cuisse de nymphe’ (Maiden’s Blush), flowers are slightly smaller and more colorful. Buds, similar in form, are more promptly tinted with pink, and a more vivid pink. Leaves are a bit darker, almost olive green, and the prickles, not numerous, are clearer and less reddish. Calix bear maybe a little less prickles, not being glabrous either. All of this corresponds to the description of ‘Small Maiden’s Blush’ ; and particularly to the rose described here as ‘Alba Incartana’ from Sangerhausen, which should be ‘Small Maiden's Blush’ : flowers, buds, leaves, calix, prickles, it seems identical in everything.

I may conclude that Loubert ‘Félicité Parmentier’ is in fact ‘Small Maiden’s Blush’ and that ‘Cuisse de nymphe émue’ as we know it is probably ‘Félicité Parmentier’, at Loubert and elsewhere. I thus may add that there is probably not such a rose corresponding to the description of ‘Cuisse de nymphe émue’ in commerce, if not ‘Small Maiden’s Blush’ itself. A question remains : was ‘Cuisse de nymphe émue’ a french name for ‘Small Maiden’s Blush’, or was it only, as it is often said, a ’Cuisse de nymphe’ with well-colored flowers ? And, as ‘Cuisse de nymphe émue’ is sometimes called ‘Belle Thérèse’, was ‘Belle Thérèse’ a synonym of it or was it another rose ?
REPLY
Reply #1 of 1 posted 17 MAY 20 by jedmar
Very interesting comments, which led me to add more to our listings of Alba-Roses and references. I am also not sure that a distinct strain 'Cuisse de nymphe émue' actually exists or existed. I think it was a selection made by French nurseries in the early 19th century when 'Cuisse de nymphe' had deeper coloured blooms. This does not mean that those roses when propagated regularly were "emué", I believe. So, actually we should combine these two listings into one. As François Joyaux said in 2005: " this is quite discutable as the colour depends very much on the soil and on the climate (without talking about personal appreciation!)"
We did the same for 'Great Maiden's Blush and 'Small Maiden's Blush', as there is no definite criteria to tell them apart, except taht one is smaller in all parts. If you look at literature and to the collection of Karin Schade for example, there seems to be quite a Maiden's-Blush-type-cluster anyway. On HMF we have 6 pages of pink double Alba listings prior to 1820. Can we identify these in today's Found Albas? Difficult, considering the very similar and short dedcriptions available.
Regarding your findings that very often 'Félicité Parmentier' is sold instead of 'Cuisse de nymphe emué' it would be very helpful to have comparative photos of buds, blooms, foliage, prickles etc of these posted, to enable others also to join in the discussion. Maybe all can then agree on the criteria based on your hypothesis. Unfortunately I have none of these in my garden!
REPLY
most recent 12 MAY 20 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 12 MAY 20 by Erichtonius
‘Cuisse de nymphe émue’ and ‘Félicité Parmentier’ in France.

There is apparently a confusion between a rose sold in France as 'Cuisse de nymphe émue' by several nurseries (Guillot, André Eve, Loubert) and 'Félicité Parmentier'. Their 'Cuisse de nymphe émue', always described as a more colorful 'Cuisse de nymphe’ (Maiden’s Blush), is in fact very different from this one and much paler too ; but it is very similar to 'Félicité Parmentier' and probably identical. This ‘Cuisse de nymphe émue’ is also grown at Bagatelle, in Paris.

Like 'Félicité Parmentier', 'Cuisse de nymphe émue' has light, almost yellowish-green leaves, instead of the greyish blue-green leaves of 'Maiden's Blush' ; small rounded yellowish buds with shorter calix, instead of the slightly more pointed buds and the longer ovoid-shaped calix of 'Maiden's Blush' ; very double and well-formed flowers of clear flesh pink, shaped almost like a ball and fading to cream at the edges, where 'Maiden's Blush' has flowers of a "soft, warm blush-pink on opening" as described by Graham Thomas, in an informal shape. What Graham Thomas said about 'Félicité Parmentier' applies to our 'Cuisse de nymphe émue' : "No other variety in this section has such densely packed buds, opening to such full-flowers of clear flesh pink".

In addition to that, the rose sold by Loubert as 'Félicité Parmentier' is quite surely not the right one. Contrary to the others, Guillot and Eve, where 'Cuisse de nymphe émue' and 'Félicité Parmentier' seem to be the same rose, Loubert has effectively three distinct roses : their 'Cuisse de nymphe émue' resembles the right 'Félicité Parmentier', their 'Cuisse de nymphe' seems to be the right one (Maiden’s Blush), and their 'Félicité Parmentier' is a third Alba rose.

The Alba rose sold by Loubert as 'Félicité Parmentier’ is actually very close to 'Cuisse de nymphe' (Maiden's Blush). Yet there are some differences between them. In comparison with ‘Cuisse de nymphe’ (Maiden’s Blush), flowers are slightly smaller and more colorful. Buds, similar in form, are more promptly tinted with pink, and a more vivid pink. Leaves are a bit darker, almost olive green, and the prickles, not numerous, are clearer and less reddish. Calix bear maybe a little less prickles, not being glabrous either. All of this corresponds to the description of ‘Small Maiden’s Blush’ ; and particularly to the rose described here as ‘Alba Incartana’ from Sangerhausen, which should be ‘Small Maiden's Blush’ : flowers, buds, leaves, calix, prickles, it seems identical in everything.

I may conclude that Loubert ‘Félicité Parmentier’ is in fact ‘Small Maiden’s Blush’ and that ‘Cuisse de nymphe émue’ as we know it is probably ‘Félicité Parmentier’, at Loubert and elsewhere. I thus may add that there is probably not such a rose corresponding to the description of ‘Cuisse de nymphe émue’ in commerce, if not ‘Small Maiden’s Blush’ itself. A question remains : was ‘Cuisse de nymphe émue’ a french name for ‘Small Maiden’s Blush’, or was it only, as it is often said, a ’Cuisse de nymphe’ with well-colored flowers ? And, as ‘Cuisse de nymphe émue’ is sometimes called ‘Belle Thérèse’, was ‘Belle Thérèse’ a synonym of it or was it another rose ?
REPLY
PhotoDiscussion id : 121-489
most recent 11 MAY 20 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 10 MAY 20 by Erichtonius
The rose usually sold as 'Cuisse de nymphe émue' seems identical to 'Félicité Parmentier', whereas it should be similar to 'Cuisse de nymphe' (Maiden's Blush).
REPLY
Reply #1 of 1 posted 11 MAY 20 by Maddalena Piccinini
You are right, I realized the error but I forgot to remove the picture. Thank you
REPLY
most recent 10 MAY 20 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 10 MAY 20 by Erichtonius
Typically 'Duchesse de Montebello'
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