HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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Initial post
12 days ago by
 HubertG
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I've sometimes wondered why the Austins never produced striped roses before. Considering there are enough striped examples amongst the old garden roses, it always seemed to me to be a natural direction for them to take. Perhaps it was just a matter of personal taste as not everyone likes striped roses. A striped Austin rose in their classic 'English' form would be wonderful in my opinion.
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#1 of 11 posted
12 days ago by
Lee H.
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Hubert, that’s an idea with strong commercial potential, in my opinion. Food for thought.
There is “something” about striped roses. I recently hosted a rose garden party for my church, and while I was busy trying to point out the perfect form of ‘Frau Karl Druschki’, the delicate coloration of ‘Souvenir de la Malmaison’, and the rich history of ‘The Apothecary Rose’, everybody was running over to meet the cute girl in the miniskirt: ‘Scentimental’.
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#2 of 11 posted
11 days ago by
HubertG
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Lee, yes, there's a reason why old stripey roses like 'Commandant Beaurepaire' and 'Honorine de Brabant' have remained in commerce so long ... it's because they're so appealing, and beautiful in my opinion. Both those roses are more cupped and closer to the 'English' form than this new 'The King's Rose', so perhaps we'll see more striped roses like that from Austin in the future.
I like striped varieties in general but they can be a bit hit and miss taste-wise. Some are beautiful and just really work; some are garish and just don't work, in my opinion. I guess a good analogy would be striped wallpaper - some kinds are well proportioned and tasteful and some are just hideous, but there are people who will still buy the hideous ones lol.
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#3 of 11 posted
11 days ago by
Marlorena
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I'm not speaking for them but it should be pointed out that this rose was produced in conjunction with the King's charity, the King's Foundation, which is ecologically based, so the rose needed to meet certain criteria, which means easy to grow with minimum feeding and watering, and stamens for pollinators. A big, many petalled rose with no visible stamens simply wouldn't meet this criteria, and needing so much watering and feeding to produce those blooms.
For every rose sold, a percentage is given to the King's Foundation.
Some of us here in UK have had the driest Spring since 1852. We are in drought where I am. Single and semi double roses are the way to go right now, unless the roses are well established. So this semi double appealed to me very much.
Incidentally, from what I gather, it seems the idea was to produce a repeat flowering rose of the Rosa mundi type, and it has been strongly hinted that 'Ferdinand Pichard' is in the lineage, and perhaps those other two roses mentioned, further back..
The growth habit has taken me by surprise in that it's similar to what you find in some Polyantha roses like Nathalie Nypels, as far as flowering shoots are concerned, where they emanate from nodes further down the stem, at the same time as the terminal cluster. I've always found pruning such roses a little problematic.
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#4 of 11 posted
11 days ago by
HubertG
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I did figure that they were aiming for the original Rosa Mundi type with this new rose. Thanks for your insight, Marlorena. I hope you get some rain soon. We've had too much of it lately in Sydney with flooding in some parts of NSW.
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#5 of 11 posted
11 days ago by
jac123
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We have detailed reports of how Ralph Moore managed to get the striped gene out of Ferdinand Pichard. All the striped roses in commerce, besides sports of solid coloured varieties, come from it. We also know that the original cross Ralph Moore did was not that easy, with few seedlings being striped and most (if not all, I'm not sure) were once bloomers. On the contrary, striped are very easy to introduce in a breeding pool using modern, striped varieties, as it is a dominant gene.
If at Austin's they really went back to Ferdinand Pichard only to get a striped, pink semidouble they must really love unnecessary challenges - maybe they just meant that the colour is reminiscent of Ferdinand Pichard or that stripes originally come from it.
I've also noticed from photos taken at Chelsea that its foliage is folded towards the center as in some other Austin varieties, such as the Ancient Mariner. I wonder if they come from the same blood line
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#6 of 11 posted
10 days ago by
HubertG
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Austin's website says it was twelve years in the making so I wonder if that's enough time to start from scratch with 'Ferdinand Pichard'. Maybe, maybe not. Austin relates a conversation with Prince Charles back in the 90s when Prince Charles told him that Ferdinand Pichard was the first rose he ever grew, so the idea of this new rose can be traced back to that meeting in a way.
It looks quite pretty, the bud clusters almost like a Hybrid Musk. I notice in a video on the Austin website that they say it has "some fragrance". Without smelling it, it's hard to say exactly what that means but it suggests to me it might not be strong.
I see it won a gold medal from the Royal Horticultural Society at Chelsea this year.
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#7 of 11 posted
10 days ago by
Marlorena
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I've just seen the flooding in NSW Hubert. The climate has gone berserk.
Just to add, the rose didn't win any gold medal, that went to the DA display stand, which it does every year without fail, it's a given, but the rose didn't even make it into the final 16, roses rarely do as shortlisted plants need to be uniquely different to what's out there, and there are plenty of striped roses. The top prize that got 43% of the votes from around 130 judges, went to a pink Philadelphus, and lovely that is too, I'd like one.
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#8 of 11 posted
10 days ago by
Marlorena
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I've just uploaded a couple of photos of the foliage, referencing an earlier comment.
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#9 of 11 posted
10 days ago by
HubertG
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Marlorena, my mistake. I saw a photo online that made it look like the rose had won a medal but I didn't read the tiny print on the certificate.
Thanks for the foliage photos. I have to say that the foliage of 'The King's Rose' does have similarities to 'Ferdinand Pichard' from some of the photos here, so perhaps Austin did work with it. One the other hand 'Stars 'n' Stripes' is only two generations from 'Ferdinand Pichard', so who knows where the stripes came from.
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#10 of 11 posted
10 days ago by
Marlorena
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Hubert.. yes I thought that too, that the foliage does have an 'FP' look about it. One failing for the Austin brand for me is that they never release breeding information these days. They used to, didn't they?.. now it's all top secret and whilst it's understandable, I don't like it.
Incidentally, the rose is 'sold out' already, I can't recall when one has gone so quickly after just a few days. We have to wait until autumn now for the bare root if anybody wants one.
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#11 of 11 posted
9 days ago by
jac123
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It is possible that they went back to Ferdinand Pichard, but I do not think that 12 years would be enough to do so. To make a marketable modern rose from Ferdinand Pichard you would need to breed in bloom power, disease resistance, and some modern refinement. 12 years is the standard time Austin takes these days to assess a variety I believe (from cross-pollination to market).
Once more, I'm not saying there's no way they did it - just that it seems like extremely unnecessary from a breeding point of view. Especially so if the end goal was a pink striped semidouble with a weak scent, suggesting that they really did not need anything else from FP than its stripes. And the exact genes that make FP striped have already been bred into modern roses. It would be like travelling to a library to read a book you have available on google.
Using a good striped modern - say Alfred Sisley, you easily get more than 50% striped seedlings. With a reasonable amount of seedlings and a couple generations you could get stripes in all kind of shapes and with a strong scent.
Regarding not sharing breeding information I suspect that specifically at Austin's they do not share it because it's more modern that most customers like to think. Probably most of their varieties really are seedling x seedling, but I find it really hard to believe that out of the dozens of varieties they released in the last 20 years (when they stopped sharing information) not a single one of them derived from a named seedling. Maybe it is true - but I find it very unlikely.
Regardless, I do not believe that sharing their "proprietary information" would in any way help others replicate their success. First of all, it would take competitors at least 10 years since when the patent is published to get their first results. Besides, most major breeders in Europe have their own breeding strategies and competitive advantage, and are probably not that interested in creating replicas of Austin roses (which they could still easily do by crossing two English roses, if they wanted).
On the contrary, the whole vintage aura around the King's rose would fade if you found out it was a (striped x knock out) x pink floribunda seedling (just an example)
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Rose Listing Omission
rosa Shining high
Dear,
seems not on HMF :Shining high. Breeder Warner;.Friendly greetings Willy
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#1 of 2 posted
10 days ago by
Marlorena
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This is a synonym of 'Peter's Persica'... already on HMF.. it's sold as 'Shining High' in Europe, and 'Peter's Persica' in UK.
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#2 of 2 posted
9 days ago by
jedmar
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Synonym added, thank you!
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This rose was recently awarded an AGM from the RHS - UK only.
2021–2024
Although the trial focused on red-flowered roses, the pink-flowered Rosa CHARISMA (‘Noa16071’) AGM was recommended for an AGM due to its exceptional performance. It stood out with its fragrant blooms, red buds that fade gracefully with age, profuse flowering in clusters, and consistent, well-shaped plants with striking red-tinted, grey-green foliage.
rhs.org.uk red rose trial [sorry but I cannot post the link as it doesn't work here for some reason]
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#1 of 3 posted
17 JAN by
jedmar
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THS seems to have removed the document on the Red rose trial
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I'll try post this link again..
www.rhs.org.uk/plants/trials-awards/plant-trial-results/red-roses
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#3 of 3 posted
18 JAN by
jedmar
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Thank you, worked out this time!
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This rose has a strong scent, and colour, when opening, varying from myrrh to tea later..
My rose is disease free so far [late June], but I have heard reports of mildew affecting the rose in some gardens here in England, this early summer..
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Powdery mildew is hard to judge. Sometimes a rose is truly prone to it, and sometimes its the case of a rose that requires extra water and a more extensive root system in place. I have seen many roses mature out of powdery, and some that will have it in the best of conditions after 5 years of maturation.
This rose is new, and while I have not seen it get powdery, it does look like a water intensive rose. We'll know in a few years which scenario is truly the case. Hopefully its just one that needs to have a more mature root system.
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No mildew for me but some early blackspot. 3rd year much better repeat, 2nd flush starting as soon as the first is over.
Obelisk supported, 5-6 feet, East Anglia, England..
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Do you cut it 6-12" above ground or let it be? I truly don't want to move mine for those dimensions.
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I let it be, just deadheading and light pruning to shape... it's never been pruned down at all.. here in UK it would be easy enough to keep more shrublike.
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Ah, thank you. Yeah, I plan to keep it shorter.
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Anyone knows if this rose makes better cut flowers than Golden Celebration (lasts 3 days in the vase for me). How is the scent of this rose compared to myrrh in Carding Mill? Carding Mill does not last long in vase, and I'm looking for ANY yellow or apricot roses that last long in the vase with decent scent. Thank you.
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Sorry, mine had a slow start, but eventually did take off, so mostly only August blooms. The fragrance and color were quite good, and they did last reasonably well for August, but I didn't try cutting them. Remind me next year.
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Michael: Thank you !! I appreciate all the great info. you provided to HMF. Agree with you that yellow roses require more water. I once had a Sutter's Gold own root rose that refused to bloom in a fabric Smart pot. Lesson learned: soil stays wetter in a plastic container. Or Arthur Bell (yellow) own root broke out in blackspots since I didn't like it and neglected watering in hot summer.
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Yes, be careful with cloth pots, as well as using a table where the bottom of a grow bench is outdoors and has nothing but metal/plastic frame mostly made of air space. Either of these will air-wick your plants into misery.
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