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Freiherr von Marschall in Australia is usually Mme Lambard. This photo reminds me more of M. Tillier.
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#1 of 4 posted
21 MAY 21 by
Nadene
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Hi Margaret,
The roses planted in Garden bed HRG 130 are a little messy. I have taken further photos which I will post as soon as they are sorted. Hopefully the extra photos will help. Thanks Nadene
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#2 of 4 posted
29 MAY 21 by
Nadene
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Hi Margaret,
If I may temporarily expand this Study file from F06 to the whole garden bed HRG130. It is very much muddled up, with the possibility of incorrect replacements, replacements going in back to front, old incorrect maps referenced or original planting back to front etc. There is also different roses within a group of roses.
Theoretically the order of the garden bed left (being North) to right (being South) should be General Schablikine, Mme Charles, Freiherr von Marschall, Archiduc Joseph, Francis Dubreuil. Some older maps had Suitor, Jean Ducher, Mary Guthrie and Baby Alberic. All except Jean Ducher (G. Nabbond) can be ruled out. I have posted below a sample photo of each rose or rough group of roses. I have many more photos if you need to see more of any particular rose. I have added a number and further comments within each Photo. All of these photos were taken on March 31, 2021.
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#3 of 4 posted
29 MAY 21 by
Nadene
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Continued...
The following roses are mixed together in a 1.5m x 1.5m area HRG 130 G04
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Identifying roses isn't my strong point! To start with the easy ones, I'd say the reds are all "Not Francis Dubreuil" aka "Francis Dubreuil (in commerce as)". I don't think there's a G. Nabonnand among the photos. I'll call in the cavalry about the others.
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GHS69 has uploaded this photo to La Fiancée (tea, May, 1885) syn ‘Catherine Mermet Blanche’ or White Catherine Mermet.
Is it possible that it is ‘’Catherine Mermet’ as she has captioned?
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I grow them both... doesnt look like la fiancee....more like the c.m., but i would have expected it to be more double
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#2 of 2 posted
29 MAY 21 by
Nadene
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The location HRG138 K15 is meant to be Catherine Mermet. I have attached some more photos to confirm before I post them directly. The photos I took are in Autumn and the Photos NCA took was in January.
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PhotoDiscussion id : 127-717
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I have made a study file and reassigned the photo out of ‘Spanish Beauty’ and into “Macarthur HRG129 F13”.
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#1 of 4 posted
29 MAY 21 by
Nadene
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Hi Patricia,
Are you please able to delete this Study File 'Macarthur HRG129 F13' and Macarthur HRG139 G12' aka Mme Gregoire Staechelin. I have reposted this rose with other photos. Thankyou
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I have merged the two files into ‘Mme.Gregoire Staechelin’ and deleted the files. The photos now remain in ‘Mme.Gregoire Staechelin’.
It appears from your comment the photos were of other roses altogether. No wonder Margaret and I could not recognise them. I still have doubts about your round hip photo. For me ‘Mme.Gregoire Staechelin’ is very much pear shaped.
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#3 of 4 posted
29 MAY 21 by
Nadene
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Unfortunately this photo is blurry but it appears a little bit of Dr Huey has snuck in. I don't know what its hips look like and didn't see any under Dr Huey photos. Is it possible it is a root stock hip?
Thankyou for deleting the Study file. Are you also please able to delete GHS69 photo. It was a photo I listed to delete but she was having trouble deleting some of them. Thanks, Nadene
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Initial post
29 JAN 21 by
Nadene
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Hi,
Is anyone able to help me with identification for this rose please. Records for the Rex Hazlewood Garden in Canberra label the location as "Cecile Brunner, White". Volunteers in the garden recall that the original rose had died many years ago and had been replaced. The rose there now stands around 2.5m high with healthy growth. It is similar to another rose in the garden which had originally been labelled as Bloomfield Abundance. It is quite possible it has been an incorrect replacement because it does not fit into the theme for that particular garden bed.
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Perhaps ‘Spray Cecile Brunner’ (which used to known incorrectly as ‘Bloomfield Abundance’).
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#2 of 13 posted
29 JAN 21 by
Nadene
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Thanks Patricia,
I forgot to mention in the previous post that the rose labelled Bloomfield Abundance I have changed to Spray Cecile Brunner. With this rose looking similar I had thoughts of it being Spray Cecile Brunner too.
Thankyou.
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#3 of 13 posted
30 JAN 21 by
Duchesse
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apparently Bloomfield Abundance has the five brothers story about the sepals. Two bearded, two not, one half and half. I'm not sure but I think I can see them in the picture. Just had the pleasure of seeing this TREE in Bonita's garden. Over 2m tall, on a single tree trunk of a stem.
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Duchesse, the original Bloomfield Abundance’ bred by Captain George C. Thomas (United States, 1920) was a floribunda. It was lost for many years but found in California in 2012 by Judy Dean and Fred Boutin. (Read the comments in Bloomfield Abundance for a better understanding).
That great big bush that we had been incorrectly calling ‘Bloomfield Abundance’ has been determined to be ‘’Spray Cecile Brunner’. (See the 2004 reference in ‘Spray Cecile Brunner’). 2m tall is about normal for ‘Spray Cecile Brunner’,
That five brothers story about the sepals.......closely look at the sepals of a few roses - that is how most are arranged. The beards are in various sizes so you need to look closely. Actually, I just went out into the midday sun to check a few blooms. I wasn’t very scientific about it (too hot) but there was a white rugosa that didn’t seem to have any beards, Maman Cochet just a whisker, and “Kew Cemetery Pink” quite visible. Interesting.
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#5 of 13 posted
30 JAN 21 by
Nadene
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Hi all,
I had returned to the Rex Hazlewood Garden to have another look at the flower buds and sepals etc after reading the last post. Interestingly I came across this mutation. I have seen flower bud distortions before but this is the first time I have seen it where another full flower bud has formed. I noticed it in both the Spray Cecile Brunner plants in the two different sections of the garden. Is this something this rose is known to do? Or perhaps I was just in the right place at the right time. Is it of any interest that I may post it on the main rose page / photos?
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See RESOURCES / GLOSSARY / PROLIFERATION.
It is also of interest to look at RESOURCES / Q&A FORUM /and type in...proliferation.
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#7 of 13 posted
31 JAN 21 by
Nadene
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Spray Cecile Brunner is an absolute champion at this - you see it reasonably often. I've heard it referred to as 'steepling' too.
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#9 of 13 posted
5 MAR 21 by
Duchesse
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Given that Bonita had travelled to the USA and knows her roses, I would stick to the belief that hers is a true Bloomfield Abundunce.
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Abundance....dance, not dunce. Although......
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The likelihood that anyone in Aus has a true Bloomfield Abundance, labelled as such, is minimal. It might be still here and lost its name, of course.
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#12 of 13 posted
28 MAY 21 by
Duchesse
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don't pick on spellings Patricia. It's really petty.
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I am of an old school and I think spelling is extremely important.
I don’t always get it right either, but know well the value of the EDIT POST button.
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