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86-3 has few thorns but is not thornless. Dr. Basye did grow a thornless rose from the same cross that he described in the 1988 American Rose Annual, but that is a different seedling than 86-3.
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#1 of 1 posted
2 MAY 18 by
CybeRose
American Rose Annual 73: 120-126 (1988) A THORNLESS FORM OF FORTUNIANA Dr. Robert E. Basye
In general, both banksiae and laevigata are quite reluctant to cross with other species. But they cross very easily with each other. Through the years I have grown several hundred seedlings of R. banksiae x R. laevigata, always using a single, thornless banksiae. All bore a close resemblance to Fortuniana except that the flowers were single. The double flowers of Fortuniana may have come from a banksian parent which was double. All the seedlings were thorny, as might be expected. Rarely would a cross bear a hip or two, but even the few F2 seedlings had thorns.
Then in 1969 I obtained a seedling (69-348) of R. banksiae x R. laevigata which was not so stingy in producing hips. But the seeds rarely sprouted, the reason being, as I soon learned, that most of them contained no embryo. Nevertheless, in 1984. two F2 seedlings were produced, one of which had a few thorns and the other of which was completely thornless, with perfectly smooth midribs of the leaves. The latter rose bears the number 85-04 and is the subject of this article. I shall call it simply 'Thornless Fortuniana.'
I thought surely 'Thornless Fortuniana would prove to be a diploid, with 14 chromosomes, as is 69-348 and Fortuniana. I was quite surprised when the somatic count showed that it was a triploid, with 21 chromosomes! One explanation might be that it arose as an outcross, 69-348 x (some tetraploid). This is highly unlikely for three reasons. First, 69-348, like its parents, blooms very early and is through blooming before most roses begin. Second, 69-348, like its parents, is reluctant to accept foreign pollen. And third, the influence of an outside pollen parent should be readily apparent, even to an amateur. On the contrary, 'Thornless Fortuniana' appears to be an exact replica of Fortuniana except 1) the thorns are missing, 2) the flowers are single, in contrast to the double flowers of Fortuniana, 3) the leaves are slightly darker green and glossier, and 4) the chromosome count is 21 instead of 14.
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Earl Parsons passed away on June 19, 2013, after a long battle with cancer. He was 88 years old. His sense of humor, creative arrangements, and willingness to share his knowledge will be deeply missed.
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Thank you for taking the time to notify us of his passing.
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Initial post
30 MAY 10
* This post deleted by user *
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Presumably the reference used described them as "small". We're open to differing opinions from our site guests - that's what HMF is about.
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What reference described them as "small"? I am the hybridizer of this rose, and I did not describe it as "small" when I registered it.
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Here is the exact text of what is published in the Sept/Oct 2009 American Rose magazine (with Patriot Dream on the cover): "'Turyes', HT, mp, 2009, ('Ed Yesan'); flowers medium pink, small, full, moderate fragrance, borne mostly solitary; foliage medium-size, dark green, glossy; growth upright, medium; ['Sonia' x 'New Zealand']; Turner, James C., 2008"
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Thank you Rosaholic, you saved us much digging.
Jim, please let us know how you would like this plant listing altered.
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The description should either say that the size is typical for a hybrid tea, or not say anything about the size.
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The description as "small" is an IRAR error.
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"Small" designation removed.
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Obituary from http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/thestar/obituary.aspx?n=keith-george-laver&pid=139868490
LAVER, Keith George - (Retired Nurseryman and Rose Hybridizer) Peacefully at his home on Wednesday, February 17, 2010, Keith G. Laver, Caledon, in his 93rd year, beloved husband of June Rutherford. Loving father of Michael and Margaret (deceased 1976); cherished grandfather of Cale and his wife Erin; dear great- grandfather of Margaret and Catherine. Fondly remembered by brother Ernest and wife Jenny, nephew Ken and wife Marilyn. The family will receive their friends at the family home, 7791 Mill Lane, Caledon, on Sunday, February 28 from 2-4 o'clock, followed by a private family service. Private interment Springcreek Cemetery, Mississauga. There will be a memorial service at a later date. Arrangements by Egan Funeral Home, Bolton (905-857-2213). In lieu of flowers, memorial donations may be made to Ontario Veterinary College Pet Trust, c/o Alumni House, University of Guelph, 50 Stone Road, Guelph N1G 2W1 or the charity of your choice. Condolences for the family may be offered at www.eganfuneralhome.com
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Thanks for letting us know.
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