'Seil' comments & questions

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Seil

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RoseQuietness most recent 7 SEP SHOW ALL

Initial post 15 JUL 07 by MichaelG

Reply #1 of 3 posted 18 JUL 07 by Seil

Reply #2 of 3 posted 16 APR 11 by Hardy

Here in the San Francisco Bay area, it doesn't do quite so well. Based on its reputation elsewhere, I wasn't expecting it to rust fairly badly (and even get a touch of PM) here, but it does. It's vigorous enough that it outgrows the diseases during most of the year, but in winter and early spring many HTs look healthier in this climate, and HTs don't do all that well here.

It's still a good rose in this area, and it's never going to die from its minor sicknesses, but don't expect it to be unsprayed perfection everywhere.

Reply #3 of 3 posted 7 SEP by HMF supporting member

Mich, Fremont, CA

Hi, I'm in Fremont, alkaline clay soil (due to originally was under ocean/sea bed with shells). I've been here for almost 20 years but originally from near Boston, acid soil (and MD also acid). I'm wondering if you have the same alkaline clay soil, and your review of Quietness' growth habits reflects this.

I've had a bear of time finding strongly scented roses (Not anise which I dislike) for CA. All my old favorites in the East coast either have No scent (Shocking Blue) or changed to very anise (Yves Piaget). So I've had to find new favorites, Sharia Asma #1, Elle, Oklahoma, ~Dee-lish (not quite as strong scent), etc.

I get my roses own root from Heirloom Roses mostly. But they seem to have no idea because they either don't grown them in the ground/native soil or they don't have alkaline clay soil where they are.

If you have the same soil, I would love to hear your thoughts/experience. I grow almost exclusively hybrid teas due to long bloom season, bloom size/shape, etc. (though I do have the occasional non-hybrid tea form like Sharifa Asma).

RoseFragrant Cloud (hybrid tea, Tantau 1963) most recent 25 JUL SHOW ALL

Initial post 1 JUN 12 by HMF supporting member

goncmg

For years the topic of "dedteriorated/-ating" cultivars has been discussed. Deterioration through overbudding/poor budding practices, virused plant material, and so on (and I believe it is generally accepted Peace simply HAS deteriorated at this point)....does anyone else find Fragrant Cloud much less robust and healthy now than it was years ago? Having a tough time getting a solid plant. Tried mail order, not robust. Tried the garden center here and the plant is barely making it along. Several years ago I had a really nice, healthy first year plant that ended up with both mosiac and witch's broom (the later is not a virus I realize)....just wondering if anyone else has experienced what might be a deterioration with Fragrant Cloud...

Reply #1 of 13 posted 3 JUN 12 by HMF supporting member

Jay-Jay

In the Rosarium of Winschoten NL, the bed with Fragrant Cloud looked ugly and de plants almost defoliated by blackspot and just a few of the appr. 50 or more plants stayed more or less alive till winter. They were pruneshoveled and replaced by a better performing variety, On the photo You can see the roseplants stayed tiny before getting diseased.	REPLY

Reply #3 of 13 posted 4 JUN 12 by HMF supporting member

goncmg

Reply #5 of 13 posted 4 JUN 12 by HMF supporting member

Jay-Jay

These were all on rootstocks. And it was the last season of them over there. (The colours aren't right, for my camera has difficulties capturing reds.) At first, after I looked them up that year, I wanted to plant them in my garden, but when I saw, how they behaved in the Rosarium, I hesitated and decided not to grow them in our garden. A good choice, considered afterwards.	REPLY

Reply #7 of 13 posted 11 SEP 15 by StrawChicago heavy clay zone 5

Saw Fragrant Cloud in a pot for $10 at Menards, lots of blooms but bad-blackspot !! This is a dry week, so the store waters it with alkaline-tap water, pH near 9, which zaps out potassium. Other roses next to it are healthy: Queen Elizabeth, Oklahoma, Chrysler Imperial, etc. Fragrant Cloud was much healthier when we got rain (pH of rain is 5.6).	REPLY

Reply #2 of 13 posted 3 JUN 12 by HMF supporting member

Kathy Strong

Hmm, I have two Fragrant Clouds -- one is a "virus indexed" own root version from Vintage and the other a Home Depot denizen on Dr. Huey. The Home Depot rose is MUCH more vigorous and healthy than the other one.	REPLY

Reply #4 of 13 posted 4 JUN 12 by HMF supporting member

goncmg

Going to try to hunt one down if I can at Home Depot or the like........my current sad little one is from a "better" garden center but the whole product looked awful and I bought one (last year) anyway.........this year's stock of FC is mostly dead at this nursery compared to huge and lovely (albeit perhapd doomed as summer ticks on) tiny pots of everyone else................every so often I find that a 1 1/2 grade of 2 grade rose "saved" from its wax and plastic sleeve or a "Home Depot" can really thrive. My current Royal Highness is gorgeous and vigorous and was on the clearance shelf 4 years ago at Wal-Mart. This year I have an Arizona from Meijers (basically a Wal-Mart) and a Mojave from a Menard's (basically a Home Depot) and they are bursting out basals, taking off.............without a doubt the best plant of Arizona I have ever grown............and what a nice surprise to see MOJAVE!

Reply #6 of 13 posted 5 JUN 12 by Seil

My Fragrant Cloud is a very weak grower. It's about 5 years old now and is still only 2 feet tall. I get one flush of a handful of blooms in the spring and maybe one bloom in the fall and that's about it. It seems to winter fine with little die back but it just doesn't want to grow or bloom much.	REPLY

Reply #9 of 13 posted 26 APR 17 by StrawChicago heavy clay zone 5

Thanks for the info. I wish more info. like that is available regarding own-root vs. Dr. Huey for particular rose. How's the vase life of Fragrant Cloud?? saw that cheap on Dr.Huey for less than $5, was tempted to buy it.	REPLY

Reply #10 of 13 posted 26 APR 17 by HMF supporting member

GardenGlimpses

I have heard several reports on own-root Fragrant Cloud, and the consensus is that it's much better budded. Vase life is excellent, usually 5+ days for me, with a huge deep clove fragrance that can be smelled from afar. Really one of the most rewarding roses ever, if you can find a good plant.	REPLY

Reply #11 of 13 posted 26 APR 17 by StrawChicago heavy clay zone 5

Reply #8 of 13 posted 26 APR 17 by HMF supporting member

GardenGlimpses

I agree most of the Fragrant Cloud out there is bad stock. I have tried it on multiflora (mail order from a reputable place), Dr Huey (big box store) and they have both produced puny disease ridden plant. I spray faithfully every week, and even blackspot magnets like Angel Face, Stainless Steel and Melody Parfumee are spotless, yet FC just sits idle and drops its leaves , like some incredible shrinking rose. I remember growing it many years ago when it was just about the most rewarding thing in my garden...bushy, floriferous, heat resistant, always pumping out new bronze foliage and clusters of big fragrant bloms. I recently bought one on Fortuniana, so far it's been rather sickly too, but it's only been 2 months so I'll give it more time.

Does anyone know a good source for this rose that was purchased recently? I'm determined to get a good plant of it since it one of my very favorites. I think I'll try Palatine this fall. I ordered some bareroot bushes from them for the 1st time this year, and they were the best I ever purchased, massive succulent root systems, plants that have grown lustily regardless of variety.

Edited to Add: I purchased a Fragrant Cloud grafted on Fortuniana last year from K&M Roses. In one year it grew to a nice dense 4ft bush loaded with big, strongly scented blooms. I can highly recommend K&M Roses as a source for a very healthy Fragrant Cloud, if Fortuniana rootstock is suitable for your area.

Reply #12 of 13 posted 24 JAN 19 by happymaryellen

Good to heqr. I am on my second fc and ready to give up. Sooo much disease, in pot or ground. Even with fu ngicide. I am over it. So eone is giving me a rouge royale, hope it behaves better!	REPLY

Reply #13 of 13 posted 25 JUL by HMF supporting member

HubertG

I know this thread is a little old but I just wanted to give my two cents on the health of Fragrant Cloud. I've only had my plant since last October but it has been wonderfully healthy for me so far. I bought it already potted and didn't want to plant it immediately because I wanted to see its performance regarding black spot to avoid any regrets, and I was anticipating problems from the reviews here, but the foliage has been wonderfully clean without any spraying. I remember seeing a couple of black spots on a couple of leaves in the height of summer if I recall correctly but nothing further came of it. I'm in Sydney, Australia where there is moderate humidity throughout the year and other HTs do get affected by black spot. Maybe we just have a strong clone of FC here. Mine is grafted but on what stock I don't know.

Another thing I've noticed is that it has retained its old foliage well throughout our winter and is now putting out new growth when we aren't even into the last month of winter.

Perhaps it might be too early for a proper health assessment but so far I'm pretty happy with my Fragrant Cloud purchase.

RoseSisters at Heart most recent 14 FEB SHOW ALL

Initial post 26 JAN 12 by Grntrz5

How does this rose fare in cooler humid weather, or HOT humid weather? I see that it's fine in hot dry areas. I'm in zone 5b where we get it all, and snow cover is not reliable. I checked on J/P's website, they are not listing it currently.	REPLY

Reply #1 of 5 posted 28 JAN 12 by Seil

grntrz, I have this rose in my garden in MI and it has wintered very well, with and without protection. It isn't the most vigorous rose in my garden but it has hung in there since it's introduction in 2006. It's very short at between 2 and 3 feet tall and it is slower to repeat and usually only gives me 3 flushes a season. It also will black spot for me. Humidity does not bother it as the blooms always open no matter how hot and humid it is. Blooms are about 3 inches in size, lovely shades of apricot but are not fragrant.

Reply #2 of 5 posted 28 JAN 12 by Grntrz5

Seil, thank you, it's good to know it does open with humidity-and the blooms are of some size in the hot part of summer. As for fragrance, I guess that's up to our genes! My husband can smell Tea roses, and so maybe this one has some of those notes in it as well.	REPLY

Reply #3 of 5 posted 9 JAN by HMF supporting member

jmile

Reply #4 of 5 posted 14 FEB by HMF supporting member

Magical fog kingdom

sisters at heart does great in the cool foggy weather of San Francisco if that is helpful to know.	REPLY

Reply #5 of 5 posted 14 FEB by HMF supporting member

Nastarana

That being the case, it would also be helpful to know the lineage.	REPLY

PhotoDuchesse de Brabant most recent 7 JAN 18 SHOW ALL

Initial post 26 MAR 17 by Elizabethspetals

I love the yellow in yours. Do you think this is temp or soil related? Mine has never been anything other than soft pink. Lightening a bit as they age. I do love them, but I would love it even more if I got a few blooms like yours once in a while. You have quite a wonderful photo there! Lisa	REPLY

Reply #1 of 4 posted 26 MAR 17 by Seil

Thank you! I can't say what might have affected the color. It was in a pot on a very hot patio in all day full sun. Maybe that did it. Unfortunately it didn't winter for me and I lost it.	REPLY

Reply #2 of 4 posted 27 MAR 17 by Elizabethspetals

Reply #3 of 4 posted 27 MAR 17 by styrax

Yellow in old garden roses is not so unusual, turns out! The best example is Salet, the moss rose, which reliably has a strong yellow flush to the petal bases in the early morning, just after it starts to open. I also noticed many albas tend to have an ivory tone to the fresh buds.	REPLY

Reply #4 of 4 posted 7 JAN 18 by Elizabethspetals

Interesting about Salet. I grow it as well, and I’ll look for that yellow next flush.	REPLY