HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'Schneezwerg' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 92-142
most recent 5 MAY 20 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 15 APR 16 by Rob Byrnes
Given the parentage, shouldn't this one be listed as being hardy to at least zone 3? Thank you.
REPLY
Reply #1 of 9 posted 15 APR 16 by Patricia Routley
Thanks Robert. I have chosen 3b. -35 to -30, instead of 3a. -40 to -35. OK?
REPLY
Reply #2 of 9 posted 15 APR 16 by Rob Byrnes
That sounds good. Thank you.
REPLY
Reply #3 of 9 posted 4 JUN 16 by Paul G. Olsen
'Schneezwerg' was tested for cold hardiness along with several other Rugosa hybrids by Dr. Felicitas Svejda for her breeding programs of this type of rose. It was the best in this respect. It's definitely cold hardy to Zone 3a and also does well in Zone 2.

This cultivar also has the best repeat bloom of any Rugosa hybrid, flowering late into the fall. It's progeny, 'Jens Munk', also repeats very well.

Interestingly, the hips of 'Schneezwerg' also mature the quickest of any Rugosa hybrid. It's likely the result of the other species besides Rosa rugosa in its parentage, which hasn't been definitely determined yet. I lean towards Rosa laxa or Rosa fedtschenkoana. It's not likely Rosa beggeriana as sometimes stated in the literature.
REPLY
Reply #4 of 9 posted 19 FEB 19 by StefanDC
Paul, did you mean to say that it's not likely R. bracteata as sometimes stated in the literature? Your information on the main page entry about the R. beggeriana parentage coming from Skinner seems reasonable, unless there is some other reason to doubt it. Certainly it would be less likely to come out diploid with R. laxa or R. fedtschenkoana (both tetraploids) as parents. Other diploids like R. beggeriana or 'Ross Rambler' (whatever its species affinity may be) would seem more likely.
REPLY
Reply #5 of 9 posted 20 FEB 19 by Paul G. Olsen
Stephan,

'Schneezwerg' definitely doesn't have Rosa bracteata as a parent. Rosa bracteata is a very tender species and therefore couldn't contribute to the excellent cold hardiness (Zone 3) of 'Schneezwerg'.

The information I provided that is on the main page - I'd like to have the last sentence eliminated because I no longer agree with Mr. Skinner that 'Schneezwerg' has Rosa beggeriana as a parent. According to Peter Harris, Mr. Skinner (at least in one point of his life) incorrectly identified Rosa laxa as R. beggeriana. Therefore, he should have said that 'Schneezwerg' had Rosa laxa as a parent.

Apparently there are Rosa laxa genotypes that are diploids.

'Ross Rambler' is a selection of Rosa laxa so it's nothing special, although at the time it was discovered at the Indian Head (Saskatchewan) Forestry Station in 1918 it was somewhat of a sensation because of its great height (24 feet). This selection appears to have been a diploid. Note: Some roses if grown in a shady location can grow quite tall because they reach for the light. I've seen a Rosa laxa seedling doing this.

I won't rule out Rosa laxa as a parent of 'Schneezwerg', but I think it's more likely Rosa fedtschenkoana is. Rosa fedtschenkona has smaller leaflets than Rosa laxa and therefore this could account for 'Schneezwerg' having finer foliage than Rosa rugosa or many of its hybrids. It's a very unusual Rugosa hybrid in this respect and still maintaining rugose foliage. Furthermore, Rosa laxa selections often flower just once, whereas Rosa fedtschenkoana can flower into late summer.

Rosa fedtschenkoana, of course, has a long breeding history in Europe since it is in the pedigree of Damask roses. There is no historical record of Rosa laxa being used in European rose breeding programs that I'm aware of. This doesn't absolutely prove that Rosa laxa isn't a parent of 'Schneezerg', but I like to think it's a factor why Rosa fedtshenkoana is.

By the way, note the shape of 'Schneezwerg' hips. It's what would be expected when a rose species (eg., Rosa rugosa) having globose hips is crossed with a species (Rosa laxa, R. fedtshenkoana) having pyriform shaped hips. Rosa beggeriana, having very small globose hips, couldn't contribute to the distinct shape of 'Schneezwerg' hips.
REPLY
Reply #6 of 9 posted 20 FEB 19 by StefanDC
Thanks for clarifying that, Paul! I agree that R. bracteata is well and truly done as a possible parent in this case; I was mainly trying to reconcile your more recent comment with the one that was posted on the first page of the entry for 'Schneezwerg'.

I really don't feel that we have a good handle on the taxonomy and identification of the Central Asian species allied to R. laxa, especially in cultivation, and I have a strong suspicion that there may be more going on than simply different ploidy series within a single, highly variable species. At the very least, I would expect that we are dealing with taxonomically distinct subspecies, and probably more likely two or more "good" species between the diploids and tetraploids. If there are reported diploid forms of R. fedtschenkoana, I've never heard of them--I've only ever understood that species to be tetraploid, and most R. laxa chromosome counts I've seen tend to list that species as tetraploid as well. I'm very reluctant to consider 'Ross Rambler' to be just a selection of R. laxa until the variation within the species has been much better characterized, because it seems a lot like it could well belong to a separate species to me (I also agree that the extraordinary height reported for it at the time of selection was probably not significant in any way.) I'm sure you know that 'Ross Rambler' also flowers repeatedly (if sporadically) through the season.

Since 'Schneezwerg' is a diploid, it is almost impossible to believe that either of its parents could have been tetraploid; if that were the case, then it should almost certainly turned out to be triploid instead. That tends to rule out R. fedtschenkoana and most typical (tetraploid) forms of R. laxa as possible parents, I think. It's only so useful to guess what species material might have been available to its raiser, since there would have been a fair number of species introduced to European gardens and available at the time it was bred. Some of them may have been mislabeled, as has always been the case in horticulture, so even parentage reported in good faith sometimes has to be taken with a grain of salt.

The shape of the hips (and receptacles) does show evidence of some hybridization, of course, although I don't know that the specific shape is necessarily so inconsistent with R. beggeriana parentage. That isn't to say that R. beggeriana absolutely must have been the other parent, but the sometimes relatively high number of flowers per corymbose inflorescence also may point in that direction. I'm inclined to accept that as the likeliest species parent with R. rugosa, with possibly a diploid 'Ross Rambler'-like selection as another contender, but it would be very useful to see some genetic testing done with this variety and its assorted possible parent species.
REPLY
Reply #7 of 9 posted 24 FEB 19 by Paul G. Olsen
Stefan,

I really don't feel that we have a good handle on the taxonomy and identification of the Central Asian species allied to Rosa laxa,..."

Totally agree. We know very little in this respect.

I note apparently there is a hexaploid (6x) Rosa fedtschenkoana, so perhaps there are also diploid populations. The Rosa fedtschenkoana we have available to us likely comes from a very limited number of populations and perhaps also from a small number of geographical regions. Especially from this species, I would like to see more botanizing done.

It's accepted that 'Ross Rambler' is a Rosa laxa seedling.

I also would love to see the results of the genetic testing of 'Schneezwerg'.
REPLY
Reply #8 of 9 posted 3 MAY 20 by Plazbo
"Furthermore, this species is once blooming and therefore if combined with Rosa rugosa the progeny would also likely only flower once."

Someone should tell that to the Bracteata growing here.

It's 100% not a parent of Schneezwerg, other than being white flowered and smaller leaflets there's no resemblance (bracteata has huge flowers, rugosa's typically aren't small either...Schneezweg's flowers are smaller than typical rugosa).

It's not once flowering though.
REPLY
Reply #9 of 9 posted 5 MAY 20 by StefanDC
I didn't respond directly to that comment myself since it's a moot point in this case, but Rosa bracteata is fully repeat-blooming here in the eastern U.S., too. I would presume that more or less continuous sporadic flowering is the natural behavior of the species. Oddly enough, though, the Flora of China only gives May to July for the flowering period. That almost has to be a mistake. In the Flora of North America treatment it is listed as May to October.
REPLY
Discussion id : 113-263
most recent 29 SEP 18 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 29 SEP 18 by Plazbo
The flower is moderately fragrant (not mentioned on the main page). The crushed leaves, I'm not detecting anything reminiscent of rubiginosa or any particular scent other than "green"....do plan to use this quite a bit in breeding being one of the few rugosa's that's shown ability to produce fertile offspring with (some) china/tea....working on removing the delayed bloom.

I'm not so impressed with the plant itself so far, can't place my finger on why though, probably just needs to grow another season or two.
REPLY
Discussion id : 8-216
most recent 31 JAN 17 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 22 APR 05 by Unregistered Guest
Origin of Schneezwerg.
Could it be a cross between R Rugosa and R Rubignosa. The leaves of my plant have distinct lemony/apple scent when crushed.
REPLY
Reply #1 of 3 posted 25 JAN 06 by Cindy
Hi! My Dictionary of Rose Cultivars lists Schneezwerg (aka Snowdwarf) as "probably R.rugosa x a white Polyantha. Pure white, semidouble, flat, 6 cm./2.4 in. across, yellow center, several together, floriferous, recurrent, small red hips in the autumn, growth vigorous, foliage like R.rugosa, wrinkles, but smaller."
REPLY
Reply #2 of 3 posted 6 DEC 09 by Chris
do you find much repeat from it? chris in ct.
REPLY
Reply #3 of 3 posted 31 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
Supposedly, beggeriana has a rubiginosa foliage fragrance but is allied more closely to fedtschenkoana because it is slighly remontant. I can't wait to mix rubiginosa and fedtschenkoana together via Quatre Saisons Blanc Mousseaux x AppleJack to get a remontant super fragrant entire plant!
REPLY
Discussion id : 96-938
most recent 29 JAN 17 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 19 JAN 17
* This post deleted by user *
Reply #1 of 25 posted 19 JAN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
I don't grow this rose personally but it is commonly grown in the U.K. and always looks happy and healthy, sometimes used in landscape planting. It enjoys the British climate blooming and fruiting well as most Rugosa types do.
REPLY
Reply #2 of 25 posted 19 JAN 17 by Jay-Jay
It doesn't like a shady spot. Then it has less flowers and less vigor is my experience.
Whether the foliage is fragrant? ...At least I never noticed that.
REPLY
Reply #3 of 25 posted 19 JAN 17 by Patricia Routley
I have been growing what I thought was 'Schneezwerg' since 2003. They are cutting grown plants, taken from a labelled plant at the closed country nursery at Eildon, Kendenup in Western Australia. My two plants are about five and a half feet high and are in a large area covered with a prostrate grevillea and the birds like the grevillea flowers, and the snakes come for the cover and a possibly tasty bird. So I am not spending a great deal of time in there. I've just grabbed a bloom and a leaf and a quick glimpse. My bloom appears to be similar to that of Museo Giardino della Rosa Antica. Today, January 20, 2017, of my two bushes, there are about five orange hips, and many smaller greener ones still growing and ripening. There are still flowers coming and bud clusters are evident. I don't recall the main blooming dates, but peak spring here is usually about November 1-20-ish. I live in a mediterranean climate with hot summers. My plant has never been watered, apart from rainfall. I grabbed a mature leaf, no smell at all. An odd smell from a crushed young newish leaf...insect?... I would not call it scented.
REPLY
Reply #4 of 25 posted 19 JAN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Doesn't 'Agnes' have an unusual smell from the new growths? I'm very envious of Patricia growing Grevilleas outside.
REPLY
Reply #5 of 25 posted 25 JAN 17 by Patricia Routley
For JasonSims1984.
Jason, please ignore my Reply #3. You have started me questioning my rose and I have spent the better part of the day going to the books and investigating 'Schneezwerg'. I am quite convinced I do not have that rose (and wish I did!). My blooms are not flat and the few hips are fairly large. What I have is either 'Blanc Double de Coubert' or another bush of 'Souvenir de Philemon Cochet'. So now I will need to find another free day investigating 'Blanc Double de Coubert' for starters.

I will share the references for 'Schneezwerg' when I am able to.
REPLY
Reply #6 of 25 posted 26 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
Thank you. I think schneezeweg is a hybrid with bracteata or beggeriana and supposedly it has some of the fragrant leaf qualities like a sweetbriar. My dream is to create a rose that has colorful, fragrant and rugose foliage, is thornless and winter hardy and has lavender blue flowers that are fragrant. It's a tall order but some things like Therese Bugnet and Applejack bring those qualities out very quickly in hybrids. I want to collect all of the species and particularly the remontant and lesser known species. Fedtschenkoana, beggeriana, the chestnut rose (can't think of the species name off the top of my head), and unusual things like rosa primula -- the incense rose. I just want to create some really fascinating and different. Reine des viollettes and some hybrid perpetuals are thornless and have fragrant foliage and lavender flowers. The modern lavenders are often thornless like blue moon. The trick is to get the colorful foliage of rosa glauca and the rugose texture of rugosa. Wassagaming is a good true lavender rugosa but it's not remontant. Just think of a bright blue rigosa rose. Rugosas have a special pigment called peonidin, which if modified the way cyanin is to create rosacyanin (the blueish pigment in lavender roses like madame violet and blue girl), could possibly create an even bluer blue. All while being very cold hardy, disease resistant, and easy to grow.

So many ideas....

So much time to ramble. Lol. Sorry for the excessive text.
REPLY
Reply #7 of 25 posted 26 JAN 17 by Patricia Routley
Never apologise about sharing dreams. I can only hope you are 17 and not 67 for time seems to run out when you are a breeder.
REPLY
Reply #8 of 25 posted 26 JAN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Good luck with getting a thornless rose with rugosa parentage.....
Roses with red foliage would be attractive rather like the 'Bishop's Children' series of Dahlias bred from 'The Bishop of Llandaff'
Perhaps 'Baby Faurax' and Rosa setigera might be worth a punt in your breeding program too.
REPLY
Reply #10 of 25 posted 27 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
Several nice things exist with rugose foliage and thornless canes. Apple blossom is a (mutiflora x general jack) x rugosa that is basically a primitive floribunda\polyantha. Also, Therese Bugnet is pretty close.
REPLY
Reply #13 of 25 posted 27 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
I'm definitely using baby faurax and similar setigera stuff derived from veilchenblau like perrenial blue and stuff like lavender dream. Not thornless but not too prickly.
REPLY
Reply #11 of 25 posted 27 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
32
REPLY
Reply #9 of 25 posted 26 JAN 17 by Jay-Jay
As a good starter, You might try Stine bred by Karin Schade, as for the foliage that-one ticks all Your boxes.
And as for fall color and winter-hardiness, You might be interested in Helvi bred by Jukka K
REPLY
Reply #12 of 25 posted 27 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
Thanks :)
REPLY
Reply #14 of 25 posted 27 JAN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
'Russelliana' and 'Erinnerung an Brod' have some very blueish tints to their flowers as well. Or perhaps 'Tuscany' x R. Setigera could be an interesting cross.
REPLY
Reply #15 of 25 posted 27 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
Himmelsauge is setigera x rugosa.

Reine de violettes is awesome but she is so double it's hard to get pollen before it ages, and it's triploid I believe so it's not highly fertile.

I would use once bloomers like belle de crecy but once bloomers can take 3 years to bloom from seeds.

Blue for you, and rhapsody in blue crossed with rugosa and roxburghii and reblooming species like reblooming pallustris could be pretty awesome. I think the secret to blackspot resistence lies in the species crosses. Kordesii (wichuriana x rugosa) is a great start.

Pallustris scandens, the reblooming swamp rose is going to be a secret weapon for creating hardy desisease resistant stuff. I am really excited to have it now.
REPLY
Reply #16 of 25 posted 28 JAN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Have you seen this rose?

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.77810&tab=1
REPLY
Reply #17 of 25 posted 29 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
Wow.

Good color! Seiryu is that color, so is Blue Bijou and on some good days so is Lagerfeld. Love Song is an excellent lavender that is richly colored and close to this shade but just a touch warmer purple.

There are a few other things that are approaching this shade of blue. Poseidon is purple gray. Blue Skies and Silver Shadows are both gray purple.

Blue Girl is still the most beautifully formed and delightfully scented lavender in my opinion. It is different from blue moon only in that blue moon has light green leaves and blue girl has glossier and slightly darker green leaves. Blue Girl is also just ever so slightly more cold hardy than Blue Moon.

Moonlight Magic is amazingly hardy and disease resistent for me, still attempting to flower all the way to Christmas, even though it flowers sparsely. Its color and scent are fantastic.

Singin' The Blues has a slight lavender toned mid pink flower most of the time but ocassionally puts out a good purple flower or two. The trade off is that is blooms more frequently and is more healthy than many other lavender roses. It's just not very lavender.
REPLY
Reply #18 of 25 posted 29 JAN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
I suspect that it may have similar origins as 'Applause', possibly.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.65388

I have to admit that I have a fondness for these varieties of roses although these floribunda types are difficult colours to place in the garden and often are far better as cut flowers. I remember as a very young child in my grandmother's garden everyone making a big fuss about this "blue" rose ('Blue Moon') and thinking to myself "But it isn't blue", although it did have the most divine perfume.
I grow 'Twice in a Blue Moon' which I think repeats slightly better than 'Blue Moon' however the bloom/leaf ratio is too biased in favour of flowers which also suffer from browning petals. It's fragrance is fantastic. I grow it with 'Burgandy Ice' and 'Tuscany'.
But I still think that there are better blue colours within the flowers of 'Mr Bluebird' and 'Baby Faurax'. Have you seen Patricia's 'Baby Faurax' seedlings?
I grow 'Bleu Maganta' intertwined amongst 'Debutante' which makes a lovely combination an idea I plagiarised from the rose pergola at Mottisfont Abby. I just planted 'Aschermittwoch' to grow in amongst 'William Lobb' and 'Erinnerung an Brod' to grow on a pergola with 'Madame Alfred Carrière'.
REPLY
Reply #19 of 25 posted 29 JAN 17 by Jay-Jay
There is more Blue to be seen in Nachtfalter, than in any other so-called "blue"-rose.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.249331
REPLY
Reply #20 of 25 posted 29 JAN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
I'm salivating! Another rose I'll have to buy from Europe before we brexit.
REPLY
Reply #21 of 25 posted 29 JAN 17 by Jay-Jay
I had to look up salivating... you meant drooling?
REPLY
Reply #22 of 25 posted 29 JAN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Kwijlen, very much indeed!
REPLY
Reply #23 of 25 posted 29 JAN 17 by Jay-Jay
I might have a spare-one still potted. If so, are You interested?
REPLY
Reply #24 of 25 posted 29 JAN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Yes I would be Jay-Jay thank you very much.
REPLY
Reply #25 of 25 posted 29 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
Spectacular! I love that.
REPLY
Reply #26 of 25 posted 29 JAN 17 by JasonSims1984
I have Mr. Bluebird, and I have created quite a collection of old fashioned blues. I am very excited to have Baby Faurax and perrenial blue this year. I also have Verdi, which is Mr. Bluebird x (Robin hood x baby faurax). I have Indigo and Reine des Violettes, and lots of OGRs that have blue tones. I also have been collecting some disease resistant yellows, as these are the source for the modern blue pigment, rosacyanin. You should look up rosacyanin if you haven't heard of it. It was first discovered in Madame Violet, but is is in most modern lavenders as well.

I have some of the new blues that have the old fashioned blue tone, as well. Rhapsody in Blue, Blue for You, Outta the Blue, etc.
REPLY
© 2024 HelpMeFind.com