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'Renoncule' rose Reviews & Comments
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In Catalogue d’une très-riche collection de rosiers des plus belles et … 1813 three varieties were already listed
1) Renoncule noire
Planche 2 n.9
Plance 9 n.81
Planche 22 n.328
2) Renoncule bordée
Planche 10 n.96
Planche 12 n. 137
Planche 19 n. 285
3) Renoncule noiràtre
Planche 11 n.107
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Sorry Bruna, rather than put it in my “too hard” basket, I’ll bring it to the top again in the hope that someone else may do this.
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#2 of 5 posted
28 APR 19 by
 Cà Berta
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Thank you Patricia. I am still hunting to give a name to the Rose found in Samos and I come across interesting information which clearly show how the renoncule shape was very much appreciated in the early '800 and many renuncole gallica roses existed. They were in the "right" place (Luxembourg) for Hardy to cross them with bengala roses in the '820" and get some hybrids (Renoncule violette and Renoncule brune) ... later forgotten probably becouse of other more fashonable shapes! The new varieties reported certainly have only an historical value but deserve to be "fitted" somewhere for the information they provide. ... eventually as "missing plant"
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Bruna, I have reluctantly prised open the lid of my “too hard” basket and tackled these. (When one is tired, everything seems too hard).
I have added Renoncule bordee, we already had the other two listed.
I have changed the bred date for Renoncule Noiratre from before 1815 to before 1813.
And changed the bred date for Renoncule Noire From 1825 to before 1813. This worries me and I wonder if there was more than one rose with that name.
I asked Translate for Planche, and came up with Plate. Is that correct? We might have to delete the notation that a photo was included with the references.
I hope I have used the correct publication, Jedmar thought there were two.
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#4 of 5 posted
29 APR 19 by
Cà Berta
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There are certainly two Renoncule noire: a gallica dated 1813 and a hybrid gallica-bengala by Hardy dated 1824-25. This latter was violet-noire and probably can be found also as Renoncule violette (for example in The old rose informant). Thank you for fighting with me with very hard struggle!!!
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OK, we now have two
File 83459 Renoncule noire (gallica, unknown before 1813) and
File 59835 Renoncule noire (hybrid china, Hardy 1825)
I do see Brent's listing in The Master List 2nd ed, p558
Renoncule Violette (Hardy, 1824) HCh [or Ch], Vt.
HelpMeFind also lists
File 2171 Renoncule Violette (gallica, unknown Dutch origin before 1811)
Where to now?
Bruna, it is only by continuing to seek that we may be able to know more on these old roses. I am only too conscious that your hard struggle may lead to more information on these little old dark purple pompoms - like this unknown one.
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