'Lens (1924-2001), Louis' comments & questions

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Lens (1924-2001), Louis

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Discussion id : 121-933 most recent 9 JUN 20 SHOW ALL

Initial post 2 JUN 20 by HMF supporting member

scvirginia

According to the Lens web site, the Louis Lens nursery was founded in 1870, and was originally a tree nursery, but soon began selling roses as well. Does anyone know if the originator was also named Louis?

I was adding references from a 1935 source that had roses credited to L. Lens. The Louis Lens who was born in 1924 might be responsible, but I'm more inclined to think an older L. Lens might deserve the credit.

Anyone happen to know- or know where to look?

Thanks,
Virginia

Reply #1 of 12 posted 2 JUN 20 by Marlorena

Hi Virginia, ...hope you're doing well... long time no speak, so to speak... ..the information you want can be found on the left column under People then Breeders.. Louis Lens Senior [1848-1923]... His son Victor took over the nursery with his brothers Emile and Henri, on their father's death.. ..the Louis Lens [1924-2001] was Victor's son, and didn't start hybridising until 1956...	REPLY

Reply #2 of 12 posted 3 JUN 20 by HMF supporting member

scvirginia

Excellent. I didn't spend enough time at the site, obviously. I appreciate your help, and hope you are staying safe these days, and enjoying your beautiful garden. Best regards, Virginia Edited to add that I thought you meant the Louis Lens web site, but now I think you are seeing something at HMF that I can not see. Are you seeing a breeder record for Louis Lens, Sr.?	REPLY

Reply #3 of 12 posted 3 JUN 20 by HMF supporting member

jedmar

I have added some additional info to Lens nursery and Lens as breeders bysed on Ann Boudolf's book (she and her husband Rudi Velle are the current owners of Lens Roses). From these, I understand that hybridisation of roses started only with Victor Lens. I have also asked Ann if she can help with assigning the rosess listed under "Lens" to either Victor or Louis Lens junior.	REPLY

Reply #6 of 12 posted 3 JUN 20 by HMF supporting member

scvirginia

It occurs to me that calling Victor Lens' son, Louis Lens, Jr. is problematic. The nursery was founded by Louis Lens, Sr. in 1870, but his sons began selling roses c. 1910. Victor was one son, but who was the other rose-loving son? Would he have been Louis, Jr., uncle to the more famous Louis?	REPLY

Reply #7 of 12 posted 7 JUN 20 by HMF supporting member

jedmar

Ann Velle calls him Louis Lens junior in her book	REPLY

Reply #8 of 12 posted 7 JUN 20 by HMF supporting member

scvirginia

Sorry to be stupid, but she calls the famous Louis Lens who hybridized the Hybrid Musks, etc. Louis junior.? Or did you mean that Victor's brother was Louis, Jr.?

In the U.S. a person is called 'junior' only when named for his father. If named for someone else, he might be called Louis II, but not Louis, Jr.

I understand that in other countries 'junior' is used more broadly to mean 'the younger', but that can be confusing to us USians.

Reply #9 of 12 posted 7 JUN 20 by Marlorena

I can understand that Virginia... over here we would just say junior to designate the difference between father and son, or less frequent, grandson, if they have the same Christian name... it's not part of the name as such, like I think it can be in the U.S.

..Victor Lens had 2 brothers, Emile and Henri, there is no mention of a brother called Louis... The one Ann Velle is referring to as Louis Lens junior, is the original Louis Lens's grandson, i.e. the son of Victor Lens..

Reply #10 of 12 posted 8 JUN 20 by HMF supporting member

jedmar

Exactly. Junior is not part of the name. And I haven't seen anyone in Europe having Roman numerals to his name except Kings. In France, they used to differ same name by adding "père" (father) and "fils" (son), and sometimes "ainé" (elder). Don't think I ever saw the same for mère and fille.	REPLY

Reply #12 of 12 posted 9 JUN 20 by HMF supporting member

scvirginia

The Roman numeral thing isn't very common here, but I have seen it when someone was named for an uncle or grandfather. I think it's used mostly for legal purposes, or in family histories. Someone might introduce themselves as Bubba, Jr., but not Bubba II. And, yes, it's pretty much males only, although I don't doubt that there are some exceptions!	REPLY

Reply #11 of 12 posted 9 JUN 20 by HMF supporting member

scvirginia

Thanks. I got hung up on the reference saying 'L. Lens', rather than Victor Lens. Presumably, that was just the Louis Lens nursery, rather than any particular person meant, which is why I think it should go with the nursery record, since we don't know that Victor's brothers did no hybridizing or discovering of sports.

Yes, in the U.S., 'Jr.' is used as part of the name, and I'm aware that we use it differently, so that's why I was still wondering if there was a Louis in the middle generation, or did Louis, Jr. mean Victor's son.

I think I've got it straight now. At least temporarily...

Reply #4 of 12 posted 3 JUN 20 by Marlorena

..thanks Virginia.. ..yes, I see it on the HMF screen, on the left side there is a column of options, and Breeder is one of them near the bottom of the list.. click on that, then it gives an option to type in the name.. and that information came up..	REPLY

Reply #5 of 12 posted 3 JUN 20 by HMF supporting member

scvirginia

I think you were seeing the info about Louis Lens, Sr. at the breeder record for Victor Lens. I was looking for a record for Louis Lens, Sr., and there wasn't/ isn't one, just records for Louis Jr., Victor and a generic 'Lens' record that looks like a catchall for roses that came from the nursery.

Sorry for any confusion. The information about Louis Lens, Sr's existence was tucked away in Victor's record, but he had no record of his own. I'm wondering if he had a son named Louis since it seems that Victor had a brother.

Virginia