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'R. vaillantiana' rose Reviews & Comments
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Initial post
11 AUG 20 by
 Plazbo
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Just a random observation, may be useful to someone.
With the recent rains over the last month the next batch of sweet briar seeds have been germinating. I rubbed their first true leaves and yep, the foliage scent is there. So the trait expresses itself quite quickly.
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Does anyone know if it suckers?
We are in Michigan, USA zone 5
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No time just now to go and check, but I am sure mine suckers a little. I have a note that a website said it will sucker if disturbed.
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#2 of 18 posted
4 MAR 16 by
Amateur
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Thank you Patricia!
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I've seen it suckering a bit on a road verge. (It's a declared weed here, like R canina; they're mainly bird-spread.)
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#4 of 18 posted
4 MAR 16 by
Amateur
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I am new to this site and it is amazing in the amount of information and photos available and moreover the (worldwide) members are so passionate and generous and it's been less than a week for my membership. I am beginning to understand a few reasons how a person could devote their life to working with roses.
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I know from direct observation, that this species is spread via the guts of herbivores here. The seedlings appear en masse in the cow dung pads. It also appears with horse faeces. My sheep love it and all the heavily grazed paddocks are rose free. On the contrary I haven't seen it along usual bird dropping sites, where other berries germinate like quite a few Cotoneaster species. Of course I couldn't argue against bird dispersion but here the main way seems to be large animals. It is VERY invasive here. I spent the first 4 years cleaning my farm of it, and suckers kept sprouting everywhere. Initially it was an inpenetrable bramble. Complete hillsides are covered with it in fairly sandy, sunny positions, also windswept . I was only able to reduce the existing population to something manageable only after about 15 years...It is said that it was brought initially by the first European settlers in the beginning of the 20 th century across from Chile as a way of creating barriers/hedges against cows wandering into cultivated areas. Nowadays there's an industry developed around the medicinal use of the hips, included medicinal oils.The hips are used to make a hip jelly and sold as tourist novelty.
However as rose gardener I wonder if it can't be used as a rootstock, since its so well adapted here( or many other places as I read). I'm also interested around its disease resistance. I've not seen black spot on it. So clearly its a species that at least here has a lot to provide.
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My garden is very bad for back spot with even the native Rosa arvensis being very prone to it. But rubiginosa always grows very healthily.
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Thank you Andrew for your comment. It certainly has valuable attributes to be considered even if it were from (my) amateur breeding view. Arturo
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#8 of 18 posted
15 JUL 19 by
Plazbo
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It's BS resistance can break down pretty quickly in breeding despite the canina meiosis (which makes it difficult to work with), eg Lady Penzance.
I do have feral OP year old seedlings that are somewhat healthier than Lord Penzance and Lady Penzance seedlings but they don't stand out as being massively different, maybe they'll change with age but probably not.
Given it's very wide native range, declared weed status in many parts of the world, it's clearly a survivor with wide adaptability but it also has a lot of faults that make it difficult to work with.
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Its invasiveness is foremost. It suckers freely. It is succeptible to mildew ( I've seen it in some years even with hips mildewed). It is very thorny that makes it difficult for rootstock purposes. Its so widespread here that I'm reluctant to add it to my plants grown HMF listing !. Any other fault to consider? TY
Arturo
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#10 of 18 posted
15 JUL 19 by
Plazbo
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From a breeding point it's canina type meiosis (only passes on 1 set of chromosomes via pollen, while seeds pass 4 sets), it can be broken with repeated outcrossings but at that point how much rubiginosa is left is going to vary greatly.
Some would also consider once blooming a fault....with the above meiosis regaining rebloom is potentially far more difficult.
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If I understand your point correctly, since its a pentaploid, to keep its virtues one ought to use it as a seed parent instead of pollen?. I just was reading about Flame Dance . It is an outcrossing with R.kordesii. ( no ploidy provided) With my very first aproximation, apart from the multiple trials done by Lord Penzance, the other breeder that has brought rubiginosa into further cultivation is W.Kordes II.
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In its native climate this is a great plant to grow.
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Here during late spring the apple scent is everywhere! its about trying out to "weed" out its negativve traits. Its so well adapted that common sense would indicate that its adaptability ought to be brought into the less vigorous species/cultivars. I'm thinking along the kordesii line or other rugosas that are black spot resistant. Would a BS resistant rootstock also reduce BS susceptibility to the grafted scion? In the fruit industry the rootstock is actually used to improve disease resistance. This is unclear to me however with Rosa hybrida. Developing much better rootstock beyond R.multiflora ( here) is one of my specific interests.
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#16 of 18 posted
15 JUL 19 by
Plazbo
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I'm not sure Kordes worked with the species directly, without looking further in to it. I know they used the Magnifica hybrid but that hybrid appears to have broken down the canina meiosis to some extent. If you follow the lineage of Apple Jack and Gold Busch (which have some of the briar foliage fragrance and seem to be able to pass it on as pollen or seed some of the time) back their nearest rubiginosa ancestor is Magnifca used as pollen so atleast some of the time it seems its passing on genes the pure species only passes on maternally. If I had access to Magnifica I'd be throwing its pollen everywhere but its not in Australia.
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Is there any danger or risk if one were to get perhaps frozen pollen of Magnifica?
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'Lord Penzance' and 'Lady Penzance' also have Rosa foetida for blackspot too.
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#15 of 18 posted
15 JUL 19 by
Plazbo
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Honestly I feel the foetida blame is exaggerated, it's not like the Bourbons, Portlands and Hybrid Perpetuals are amazingly healthy despite their complete lack of Foetida ancestry, some of them are outright gross getting near complete BS coverage. Its not a night and day difference between feral op seedlings and LP seedlings.
Foetida itself has been clean here, I allowed it to go dormant in summer when its growth slowed and started to drop leaves. Look at first and second gen hybrids like tip-top, hazeldean (and siblings), carefree copper which are healthy....odd for a species thats commonly blamed for introducing blackspot into the genome, maybe it was just bad selection, common use of spraying and the rush to introduce yellow roses early on that lead to poor speciemans going to market.
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I grow foetida 'Bicolor' and rubiginosa, they are both healthy here. 'Lady Portland' and 'Bourbon Queen get black spot very badly.
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In September 2015 I sowed seeds of this rose collected from plants growing on the South Downs in Sussex in the South East of the U.K. I chilled them for three months then started them off with some gentle bottom heat, but nothing grew. I kept them moist throughout the summer and bought them inside and gave them a little heat about a fortnight ago. Now they are germinating like mustard and cress! I only want a couple of plants for my garden so if other members would like plants too by the autumn of this year they should have made plants large enough for planting out, contact me, you are very welcome to them.
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#1 of 3 posted
17 DEC 18 by
AlanaSC
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Do you have any left Andrew?
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Hello Alana,
Yes I do have a few small plants left. But it is illegal for me to send plants to the United States. If I can get seeds again I think I can send you some, However in some parts of the world this rose is an aggressively invasive alien pest so please check that in your region it is not a problem. Sorry to be a bit of a dissapointment.
Regards, Andrew.
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#3 of 3 posted
18 DEC 18 by
AlanaSC
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I'm sorry . I didn't realize you were not in the US. Thank you though!
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William Robinson, The English Flower Garden, seventh edition, May 1899. Pub. John Murray, Albermarle Street, London.
p.771
R. Rubiginosa (Sweetbrier). -- Perhaps as pretty as any Wild Rose in flower, fruit and delightful fragrance. It is a native rose, but also distributed through much of Europe. and Asia, and, although often planted is scarcely ever made enough of in country places. It is most useful for forming fences with Quick of even by itself on good banks, as it is so spiny that cattle, which do so much harm to almost every other kind of hedge plant, do not touch this, so that it swings careless in the field where they are. The plant ought to be grow by the thousand, and any body with a few bushes of it can save the seed for this purpose. It is a delightful plant from the time its buds burst in early spring until the birds have eaten the brilliant berries in winter.
[Quick = Hawthorne, Crateagus monogyna/oxyacantha].
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