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'Belle Vichysoise' rose Reviews & Comments
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'Cornélie' seems to have been a bright pink Noisette, while 'Belle Vichysoise' of commerce today is definitely not bright pink. Roseraie Ducher offers both 'Cornélie' (bright pink) and 'Belle Vichysoise' (pale pink and white):
http://roseraie-ducher.com/fr/rosiers-buissons/44-rosier-buisson-cornelie.html?
http://roseraie-ducher.com/fr/rosiers-grimpants/228-rosier-grimpant-belle-vichyssoise.html?
I can only assume that the comparison that was made when it was determined these roses were the same involved a mis-labeled plant. They look nothing alike. Accordingly, the 1899 and 1906 editions of Nomenclature de tous les noms... give them separate entries, histories and descriptions: 'Cornélie' is rose vif, while 'Belle Vichysoise' is blanc rosé.
It does seem that HMF ought to look at the synonymity of these two roses with more skepticism; I think they deserve separate records.
Virginia
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#1 of 3 posted
3 days ago by
odinthor
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I agree. The early descriptions of 'Cornélie', which include not only vivid pink but even red ("rouge") once, are at odds with the blush 'Belle Vichysoise'.
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#2 of 3 posted
3 days ago by
 jedmar
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The synonymity is based on the article in Journal des Roses of June 1903, which is taken up by later authors. BV seems to have been a found rose, re-introduced in 1895. The comparison with Cornélie was apparently made 1901 in L'Haÿ. It is possible that Cornélie there was mislabeled, as Gravereaux seems to have planted all roses he could lay his hands on with no questions asked.
Counter-arguments: 'Cornélie' is no longer on sale at Ducher or any other nursery; none of the photos posted seem to show it. Does Tête d'or really have it?
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I wonder if 'Cornélie' was already extinct before it was proposed as a synonym for 'Belle Vichysoise'. Which raises the question of which rose in Gravereaux's collection was found to be "identical with" BV.
From comments made by observant rosarians like George Paul, I think BV had more of the appearance of a Moschata hybrid than your usual Noisette, whatever that means. Perhaps it's one of the several Hybrid Moschata varieties named 'Belle Henriette'? Or another early Hybrid Moschata?
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Under 'Cornelie' you list in "Buy From" an archive source: Joseph Kern Nursery. I own the Fall 1970-Spring 1971 catalogue named there. I have read it three times now but do not find either 'Cornelie' or 'Belle Vichysoise' listed. Pemberton's 'Cornelia' is listed under Hybrid Musks, but that is all. You may wish to remove that misleading source.
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Anybody can tell how thorny it is?
I need to place it in a thorn free (or almost free) area.
Thank you for your advice.
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I adore this rose. The fragrance is delectable, it blooms prolifically, and is just so pretty. I haven't had it for long--only about 2 years, but it's never gotten any blackspot or powdery mildew. I have it planted in a tall raised stone bed and it's just starting to cascade over the wall. I'm in love.
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Hi,
Would you mind telling me how large your plant is now, height and diameter? Do you prune it?
Thank you in advance,
Lynn
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