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'Surprise Party' rose Reviews & Comments
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Good when it's good. Defoliates at times.
Ok, but am in two minds about it at the moment.
Update: This one can stay. Foliage is pretty good most of the time, and the blooms are fun even though the scent is negligible.
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Initial post
10 JUN 13 by
 goncmg
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Somewhat confused by the comments here as my experience with this one is that it is almost too small to even be a Floribunda and it is absolutely a Typhoid Mary with blackspot....................another one that got that AARS billing but for no reason on merit.............
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It is not too small to be a floribunda. Thats like saying French Lace is too big to be a floribunda. Charisma is similar to the size of Pinocchio, one of the founding floribundas, or Disco Dancer, one of the UK classics.
As for blackspot, it was about average for its time, which is to say most AARS winners were not really graded for disease then.
Gotta think about time and place. this was a floribunda of its time and place, and was loved for that eras colors -- hot, romantic colors were very IN then.
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#2 of 8 posted
12 DEC 13 by
goncmg
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Hey! Michael! So great to get feedback from you!!! This is what HMF is all about!
THAT being said, my comments are totally valid! CHARISMA is TINY! And what CLASS the plant is placed in is totally up to the BREEDER.....and the breeder for obvious reasons will slant it towards whatever is "hot" on the market in x y z year............in the 70's? GRANDIFLORA was a KILL! Now? GRANDIFLORA is "hot"..........and even with THAT being said, only the US acknowledges "Grandiflora" but I think and I hope you understand what I am typing..........because YES French Lace SORT OF DOES straddle FL/HT....check out Evening Star, Cherry Vanilla, heck---GRANADA, maybe Joseph's Coat, wrap your mind around endlessly cluster flowering First Prize if you want to take this "ERA" topic and have a great debate!
I've grown roses my entire LIFE. ENTIRE. LIFE. Lather, rinse, repeat. I have grown them longer and more lovingly and know them MORE than many people on here (which makes me sort of sad to be honest)...........
CHARISMA hit the market just AFTER Matador/Esther O'Fairum..........and just after Pinata the climber, odd.....because red/yellow bicolor wasn't really what was "hot" in 1977/78--I DO challenge you on that, the 70's were all about exhibition and color "change" and oddly coral pink I would argue was as "hot" as anything (First Edition, Seashell)..... and yet all THREE of these big releases somehow tried to MAKE that color "hot" and they all flopped......Matador/Esther has actually been used to some minor success as a parent but Charisma and Pinata have not............and ALL of these "colors" are very prone to blackspot. Their colors would not be possible without sliding R. Foetida into their lineage and R. Foetida likes it pretty much like San Diego, CA: go too hot? go too cold? GOD FORBID there be any WATER in the air! FLOP FAIL FLOP.....BLACKKKK SPOTTTT..............and so on...........
I loved that JELLY got an AARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How insane! And how unlikely x 100000????? Right? You DO follow me? Right?
I GET the ERA. My specialty ISSSSS "the lost moderns"..............I will NEVER dispute the fact that ANY variety may grow WELL or SUPREMELY in any crazy spot.....micro-climates are blessed, if the plant is budded there are issues, if even own root some issues (you follow???)...............but no, sorry. I GREW Charisma in Chico, CA and in Columbus, OH. It was once a big bed IN The Park of Roses in Columbus. I own every single ARS Rose Annual 1940-1990 and yep! READ THOSE RIR/POP REVIEWS AND WITH CHARISMA ACTUALLY WAS INVOLVED IN THOSE!
The era of the "miniature" was 5 years away. POLYANTHA is STILL a "death" class..........shrublet? Mini-Flora???? An unlikely winner from an unlikely hybridizer, too small and blackspots..............and hey! CHECK OUT LITTLE DARLING!!!!!!!!!!!!! WANT TO SEE SOMETHING THAT REALLLLLLLLLLLLY is too big to be a Floribunda yet never clusters so cannot be a Grandiflora? Yet the form on those teeennny blooms is PERFECT? Is hardy? Is a HUGE parent with those awful miniatures? Was before its time????? IS UNCLASSIFIABLE STILL???? Yeah. Little Darling. I assume you already know this............
I grow roses because I love them. I share what insight I can and what I have which is actually quite a bit on so many levels
Yet, and happy to SAY this having just gone to the CCRS auction: I AM NOT A ROSE "PERSON"...............I just love them because I love them. Guess I am a rose "person"....?????
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Oh, its average sized here. Playboy (similar color so decent comparison) is a giant by floribunda "standards" here, reaching 5' x 5'. If Playboy is Peace (another giant) then Charisma is Sonia. It is possible that the usual root stocks used are more compatible with Charisma here then there. Who knows.
I do not think Charisma is a flop at all. The color was quite vibrant for its era, where they were trying to breed out the dull tones of the orange and reds in roses. Maybe this is simply hat I have seen it look nice in average homeowners' yards. Who knows. And by "hot" I simply meant tropical colors, which can be anywhere from 'Ole' red to 'New Day' yellow to 'First Edition' coral. The 60s and 70s were booming with clear, bright, vibrant colors that had not been experienced in roses before, with the exception of some very limited roses, like Rosa foetida bicolor and the like. All of these have their limits, too, but they were very exciting and new then, much like St. Patrick, a total dud here, was a very exciting experience across America in the 1990s.
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#5 of 8 posted
28 MAR 15 by
goncmg
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Hey Michael, I just saw Charisma as a body bag in a bin at a big box here in Columbus. It appears to be thornless?? Those body bags are always a gamble. The Tropicanas look to be Tropicana, Oregold appears to be Oregold, Chrysler Imperial appears to be Chrysler Imperial. But I do not recall what Charisma looks like dormant. I wouldn't mind "rescuing" one but I have not much space left and really need to save a Charisma and not a random. The Charismas appear to be paler caned, thin caned, and totally thornless??
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Have a look at the Patent - which says "several thorns on canes and branches".
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#7 of 8 posted
28 MAR 15 by
goncmg
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Good idea, Patricia! And I did not remember Charisma being thornless. Whatever is in those body bags, it isn't Charisma.
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Body bags are always roulette.
Most Zorina hybrids, except Tropicana descendants, are typically average to low thorn count. If memory recalls, its lightly prickled. Nothing to write home about, but not thornless.
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One of the Master Gardeners in Washington County Florida grows Charisma (Floribunda) in completely full sun. It had about a hundred first flush flowers this year, is about 4 feet tall and three feet wide. This is a 5+ year old grafted plant and it is given systemic fungicide monthlty, and his absolutely no blackspot. The soil has very low pH and is very sandy. It is given commercial fertilizer, mulch and compost.
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This rose should have been called Hot Lava. In ourTexas heat, this rose opens lava yellow with lava red tips and within a day or two is almost compely lava red with just a hint of yellow at the base of the petals.
Self-leans very well. Don't really have to do any deadheading. When I go to cut it with my pruners, the spent boom just falls of the plant. I guess you could dead-head sooner to keep the plant looking extra-tidy.
A bloom machine. My 3 plants are in FULL sun all day, morning and afternoon. Doesn't seem to bother them too much. Just slows them down a tad in mid summer when the heat is at the highest temps.But slowing down this rose just makes it seem like any other avarage rose. Two thumbs up! Great for a border.
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Sounds like this rose would be very easy to keep clean looking with a hard spray from the hose.
Smiles,
Lyn
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#2 of 2 posted
21 FEB 12 by
Penelope
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Not a bad idea!! ...Might damage the good blooms though....Seems like there are always some blooms on it.
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Initial post
2 FEB 12 by
kona
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Nice tough, little compact rose....and a bloom machine in a spot with blasting sun and no irrigation. summer. Very little BS no-spray.
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