HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
|
|
|
"Centifolia Nabonnand" rose Reviews & Comments
-
-
|
From "Fat Roses: the Perfume Industrey at Grasse" by Louisa Jones, p 61, Hortus no 26, summer 1993. 'Rose de Mai', Centifolia, Gilbert Nabonnand, 1895. Flowers single, plants thornless. Often grafted on 'Indica Major' or 'Fredica', the later a hybrid between 'Indica Major' and 'Multiflor' developed for the perfume industry as an understock.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#1 of 5 posted
13 FEB 10 by
 jedmar
|
There is no other source for a centifolia 'Rose de Mai' by Gilbert Nabonnand. Maybe Nabonnand had this rose in his catalogue (south of France), but it was not bred by him.
The oldest source for 'Rose de Mai' I could find is from 1861. It is said to be a synonym of R. centifolia provincialis or a variety of R. damascena. The question is, whether this rose used to be called differently in earlier times.
A probable candidate is 'Rosier des parfumeurs', which was referenced earlier as a Damask and later as a Gallica. This is also possibly a synonym of 'Rose de Puteaux', which in turn is R. belgica Mill., traceable back to the 17th century. Unfortunately, Lindley subsumed R. belgica under R. damascena Mill., although many sources point out differences.
All these roses have in common that they were planted intensively for rose water and perfume in France.
|
REPLY
|
|
Yes, I now see that there are earlier references to a Centifolia "Rose de Mai", but do any have descriptions saying it was single and thornless. Does that description appear in your 1861 reference? Is "Rose de Mai" perhaps a local or perfume industry common name for any Centifolia like rose? In which case, what is the cultivar name for the single thornless clone which Jones ascribes to Nabonnand? Is it a form of Rosa centifolia or from some other class of rose? I'm wondering if it might be a seedling from the roses called "centifolia" in India, which are cultivated for producing rose water.
Does someone have a photo of the Grasse Rose de Mai?
In her paper on the perfume industry at Grasse Jones also states that, "A multi-petaled variant, the double May Rose, developed by Lunier, is grown in smaller quantities."
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#3 of 5 posted
14 FEB 10 by
jedmar
|
The 1862 reference from "Le Messager Agricole" describes 'Rose de Mai' as single to semi-double, however also as bristly and prickly. This does not conform to the 'Rose de Mai' currently grown in Grasse, which is clearly double. Photos and a video of it are found in the two 2009 references; please click them for the links.
Does Louisa Jones' article have a bibliography?
|
REPLY
|
|
Jones' article ends saying "For Riviera rose varieties, see Marie-Therese Haudebourg's forthcoming book about Old Roses from Editions Hachette.
|
REPLY
|
|
With reference to your article, I have been trying to find a nursery which will provide me with a Rosa Centifolia de Mai or Grasse since I visited the Grasse ExpoRose in May! Everywhere, this highly perfumed rose was referred to by the locals as the Rose of May or the Rose of Grasse and throughout the town there were baskets of its petals - yet neither Fragonard, the Perfumery in Grasse nor the Tourist Office in Grasse could provide me with any leads to a nursery which would supply me with such a rose - nor could I find anywhere "on line" Why the enormous secrecy?? Please help!
|
REPLY
|
-
-
|
More on the single thornless Rosier de mai. Francois Joyaux in his La rose, une passion francaise, 1778-1914, 2001, p. 175-176, partially on line, says there are two Rose de mai hybrids cultivated at Grasse, the single, thornless rose de mai 'Nabonnand' of 1895 and a very double rose de mai 'Lunier'.
|
REPLY
|
Reply
#1 of 2 posted
15 FEB 10 by
jedmar
|
This must have been the source for Ms. Jones. Still, the available photos for 'Rose de mai' show neither a single rose, nor a very full Centifolia. Best to go and check oneself this May!
|
REPLY
|
|
Note that the Jones' paper is 1993 and the Joyaux book is 2001, so perhaps Joyaux got his information from Jones, or both from yet a third source. The available images of "rose de mai' roses in the Grasse area seem to be all from one plantation, now owned by Chanel. Other plantations may grow different clones.
|
REPLY
|
-
-
|
The name Rosier de mai for centifolia's cultivated at Grasse appears earlier than 1895. In the Annales agronomiques, vol. 3, p. 520, under roses important in the Grasse region, R. centifolia is equated with Rosier de mai. Either that was a general name for R. centifolia in the region or the Nabonnand cultivar is older than 1895.
|
REPLY
|
|
|
