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"St. Leonard" rose Reviews & Comments
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Has there been any consensus on whether "St. Leonard's Noisette" is 'Jeanne d'Arc'? The blooms looks similar.
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"St. Leonards Noisette" is the same as what we are calling 'Jeanne d'Arc', but that identification has not been confirmed with an old illustration or detailed description. There should be an old description which mentions a Noisette or Ayrshire with fragrant prickly glands on flower stalks and some stems, and white flowers which age with bright pink centers.
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Well, there should be..... but the old references to 'Jeanne d'Arc' are very few in my bookshelf and computer. I've added the 1893 and 1995 refs but they tell nothing really.
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This reply is three years after your comment but the question is still open so I figure it's okay to re-open the thread.
I got bored and went trawling on the internet for older references to Vibert's 1848 Noisette, Jeanne d'Arc. (and a couple others I thought sounded interesting). I don't think it actually gets us any farther in figuring out the St. Leonard's/Little Mary Tower/Pale Pink Noisette issue. Oh well! It was fun. Here's what I found!
The Rose Manual; containing accurate descriptions of all the finest varieties of roses, properly classes in their respective families, their character and mode of culture, with directions for their propagation, and the destruction of insects. By Buist, Robert, 1805-1880 pub 1851 pg 94 archive.org
“Jeanne d’Arc, a strong grower, of a pure white color, very double, flowers rather small for the habit of the plant.” (In the chapter on Noisettes)
Culture Generale. Etablissement Horticole de Avoux et Crozy. By M. Avoux and M. Crozy (?) pg. 81 pub. 1847 gallic.bnf.fr
“Jeanne d’Arc, moy. Tr. Mult. Ou pj. Blanc, centre legerement carne … 1F50c” (listed under “Rosiers Noisettes”)
The amateur’s guide and flower-garden directory: containing every requisite detail for the successful cultivation of the flower garden. Embracing the classification of the best varieties of roses, and all plants requisite for the garden with directions for propagation, and remedies for the destruction of insects. To which is added the Vegetable garden manual. By Clark, John T. C. pub 1856 archive.org
“Jeannie d’Arc,……. Pure white,… Cupped and very double. Flowers rather small. A strong grower.” (listed under “Rosa Moschata”)
1861 descriptive catalogue of Southern and acclimated fruit trees, evergreens, roses, grape vines, rare trees, shrubs, &c., cultivated and for sale at Pomaria Nurseries. By Pomaria Nurseries, Summer, William, 1815-1878; Henry G. Gilbert Nursery and Seed Trade Catalog Collection archive.org
“Joan of Arc—Pure white, fine pillar rose; cupped” (listed under “Noisette Roses”)
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Continuing a thread from 'Miss Clegg'.
The fact that Constance Virtue thought "St. Leonards" was 'Aimee Vibert', as did Mrs. Keays in 1932 and 1933 is encouraging. This resemblance was often noted in the 'Miss Glegg' references.
I am a little concerned at the 'Miss Glegg' 1839 Buist, U.S. reference as he mentioned "dwarf", but he lived in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. (Isn't it coolish there?) Dwarf was also mentioned in the 1853, 1892, and 1908 references - these were U.K. Refs. I have no doubt it would be taller in warmer climates.
The 2009 "St Leonards" reference to a 2" wide bloom is worrying. 'Miss Glegg' was said to be "very small" (1892 and 1893).
Perhaps more botanical details, such as bloom size should be added to the "St. Leonards" file. But I think you are getting very close to solving this old foundling. I'll go ahead and embolden various comments and photos in preparation for any future merging of "St. Leonards" with its true identity.
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I think in some (nursery) contexts, roses were sorted into three types: standards, dwarfs, and climbers. If it wasn't a standard, and didn't climb, you had a dwarf... what I'd call a shrub. It might have been remarked upon by several people because Noisettes were often expected to be pillar roses... There was a specific mention by someone who grew- and liked- 'Miss G' that she didn't have a tendency to climb.
But I also agree that 'Miss Glegg' planted in cooler climates would probably remain a good bit smaller than in, say, California. We do know that 'Miss G' was grown in the U.S., and from the references it seems that she remained popular longer than many other cluster-flowering Noisettes. That would fit with her showing up in various locales across the U.S.
As far as I can tell from the limited description and photos of "St L", it also doesn't climb. It would be nice to see more info added about "St Leonard's"; perhaps someone who knows and grows it will be able to add more photos, written description, a comment about bloom size...?
Virginia
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