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'Souvenir de l'Imperatrice Josephine' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 94-160
most recent 20 AUG 16 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 30 JUL 16 by Hardy
This is more a reference than a comment, I'll leave it to the staff to edit/relocate it as desired. From 'Cuttings from My Garden Notebooks', Graham Stuart Thomas, 1997, pp. 146-7:

"The thought-provoking names poured from [Nancy Lindsay]. For some years I was frustrated by these names because I could not find them in any of the old French books in my possession, nor in the Lindley library. At length the reason dawned on me. Finding an unknown rose in an old garden without a name she let her fancy run free and coined a name for it. Thus did the following names appear in commerce (in her own catalogue):

'Souvenir de la Princesse de Lamballe' which proved to be 'Bourbon Queen'.
'Souvenir de l'Imperatrice Josephine' was the same as one I acquired from The Honourable Bobbie James, known as Miss Willmott's Rose, reputedly brought from France by the emigres and now known (without foundation) as 'Empress Josephine'.
'Rose des Maures', another name without foundation, a rose now known as 'Sissinghurst Castle', commemorating the garden where it has so long been grown.
'Souvenir de la Bataille de Marengo' which turned out to be 'Russeliana' or 'Scarlet Grivillea', a R. multiflora hybrid.
'La Tour d'Auvergne' which proved to be the Damask 'Oeillet Parfait'.

There were many others, all since resolved."
REPLY
Reply #1 of 2 posted 30 JUL 16 by Patricia Routley
Thanks Hardy. If you open up PUBLICATIONS / and then type in the name of the book / click on PLANTS REFERENCED, you will see that we have all of those references - except for 'Souvenir de l ' Imperatrice Josephine' being 'Miss Willmott's Rose'. I rather suspect this reference might belong in the 'Francofurtana' file (see The Graham Stuart Thomas Rose book p27). What do you think?

Oh, by the way, HelpMeFind hasn't got any staff. We only have a few people who volunteer their time and expertise - and we are always looking for more (time, expertise and volunteers) !
REPLY
Reply #2 of 2 posted 20 AUG 16 by Hardy
I found that reference interesting not so much for its listing of any new names, but for how it showed that, despite the sound of them, names like 'Souvenir de la Princesse de Lamballe' may be quite modern inventions. He says (The GST Rose Book, p. 99) "The name 'd'Orsay' came from Nancy Lindsay, but may well not be the original," and who knows how many more there are?

For the benefit of those who do not have GST's Rose Book handy, I'll try to summarize the gist of page 27 without trampling copyright underfoot. GST found that what he grew as Empress Josephine looked very similar to Redoute's painting of R. turbinata/Rosier de Francfort, which differed only by having bristly hips. "[R. x francofurtana's] garden forms include the variety 'Agatha' , which appears to be identical with my 'Pope Piux IX'... The botanical portraits of R. francofurtana in old books (apart from Redoute) record a much less impressive and double rose, such as [lengthy reference omitted] which depicts a very prickly type." On page 6 of the same book, he mentions "the so-called 'Empress Josephine', which proved to be a form of R. francofurtana."

I think all he meant by that, is that he successfully identified it as one of a class that used to contain white, pink, red and purple flowers, some single, others double or very double, short upright plants, arching bushes, and climbers that might be trained for 12-20 feet, but which is now limited to survivors one could count on one hand. The species rose and Agatha are both triploid, but Empress Josephine is tetraploid, and visibly differs from R. x francofurtana.

I hope that helped, rather than make things more confusing.
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Discussion id : 10-490
most recent 11 NOV 05 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 11 NOV 05 by Rejean
It was beleived to be the Imperatrice Josephine's favorite flower in her collection.
She was Napoleon`s first wife and patron to the old roses. She commissionned Redoute to paint her roses collection, hence the painting of Redoute.
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Discussion id : 5-323
most recent 25 FEB 04 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 25 FEB 04 by Anonymous-797
I grow this rose in zone 5. It is a very tidy, once-blooming bush of about 2.5-3 feet high and 3 feet wide, in its 3rd year. Almost no fragrance, but may need another year or 2. I find that some roses don't have a fragrance until they're well established.

Blooms all along the canes, probably because the canes tend to splay out (not upright) almost parallel to the ground and this encourages lateral blooming. The blooms are quite long-lasting (about 4 weeks here) and very pretty, in a dainty, ladylike sort of way .

The absence of fragrance (so far) is always disappointing, but this bush is so darned neat, tidy, dainty, and well-behaved that one must give it credit and appreciation.
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