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'DELstavo' rose Reviews & Comments
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I wish there were articles or documentation about how the Southern European countries began striped roses. It is obvious that they began before roses like Scentimental hit the market, so it makes me wonder if there is a story to tell.
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#1 of 12 posted
2 APR 18 by
mtspace
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Ferdinand Pichard has bee around for a long time. It lurks in the ancestry of Oranges 'n' Lemons as it does in the ancestry of Scentimental.
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Do you think they could ultimately all descend from Rosa gallica 'Versicolor'? Are there any striped roses without any gallica blood in them at all?
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Andrew ...
You may be interested in this article written by Ralph Moore:
http://www.paulbardenroses.com/moorestripe.html
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Yes, some teas are striped.
FP is related to other H.Perpetuals. They share an odd type of feathery, pointed foliage, which is kind of interesting.
I am not completely convinced virus is the only source. Maybe it's just a simple mutation. I think most of my frustration is that there is no lineage bridges from of the original modern roses (gallics, for example) to the early 1900s.
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Thank you Lyn that was really informative.
Michael are the stripy Teas pure Teas? The foliage of 'Ferdinand Pichard' is also a pale colour too similar to certain others. The gaps in the family trees are as annoying as with "blue" roses too.
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It's not possible to know. Many lines ends in information between 1800 and 1850.
I am guessing that striping is a form of incomplete inheritance in some lines of roses. I am also guessing that bicolors further disambiguate the incompletion.
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Ralph Moore introduced modern striped genetics via, 'Ferdinard Pichard'.
I was around and knew him at the time. All modern striped roses descend from his work.
They created quite a stir and they still do.
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I REALLY like 'Stars 'n' Stripes' and would just love to know the parentage of 'Ferdinand Pichard'.
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That line is from:
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=1.61456
They have foliage unlike most HPs of the time, with slight serration and more linear leaflets. Sometimes with undulating disfigurement to the whole leaflet.
Vebert spanned 50some years, it spans many types of roses, and a lot of the work doesn't have a lineage. He used a lot of moss and centifolia, which makes me wonder if a mutation from those was not the source. Specifically centifolia x gallica backgrounds, which are prone to mutations of all sorts. Including color breaking. It is perhaps he found a mutation that was not genetically superficial and kept the stripe from it, which happened to be a simple single.
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Mr. Moore chose Ferdinand Pichard precisely because it was the only striped rose he could find for which there was no stated parentage, and wasn't a sport. Therefore, it held the greatest opportunity for him to mine stripes from it. It took a long time, but he did it and, as Robert stated, modern stripes all come from those original Little Darling X Ferdinand Pichard seedlings.
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I originally made this thread because I had wondered what the exact source of stripes that landed in Europe was. For example, in New Zealand, McGredy began with Stars n Stripes. It took him quite some time to breed the lankiness out of them, although his most popular from that venture, Oranges and Lemons, still suffered from lankiness. Essentially, I had wondered which derivative ignited the same in Europe, and which company landed the derivative first. It does seem Delbard had among the earliest access of those in Europe. I recall they even had a striped russet.
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Mr. Moore loved telling the story that McGredy asked him for Pinstripe, his best stripe to that point as it is a bushy, dwarf plant without the ranginess of the earlier types, but Mr. Moore wasn't finished exploring it. He did give McGredy Stars'n Stripes and suggested he raise selfs from it to fix the dwarf, bushy plant habit. McGredy obviously didn't take his advice for some time as every stripe he raised from it ran rangy.
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Initial post
25 MAR 19 by
 BrianH
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Available from - Regan Nursery
https://www.regannursery.com/rose/Rosa-Hybrid-Tea-Painters-Collection-Maurice-Utrillo
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Throws striped seedlings. Easily the strongest and most healthy of the striped Delbards I've grown. Sets hips with ease. Seeds are hard to germinate.
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Available from - Rankins Direct
http://rankinsroses.com.au/product/maurice-utrillo/
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