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'RT 97-150' rose Reviews & Comments
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I'm reporting that in Australia this rose was named for a famous racehorse [see Knight's reference], who sadly died this morning, 17 Aug '24, at 18 years old after giving birth, due to laminitis - a hoof infection.
Black Caviar the horse won 25 races, never beaten, and 15 at the top level. A sprinter, she also came over to England and won at Royal Ascot. She was officially the world's best racehorse in 2013.
Personally, the German name of this rose doesn't mean a lot to me, but the Australian name does, and I think if I lived in Australia, and from the horse racing community, I would expect to have this rose in my collection. I wonder if Australian vendors of this rose might see a renewed interest in sales, especially in the NSW area.
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#1 of 5 posted
17 AUG by
 HubertG
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That's sad news, Marlorena. Maybe the rose will have a resurgence in sales but I still see 'Black Caviar' regularly in nurseries. 'Winx' is another rose named after a champion Australian Thoroughbred that I also see a fair bit of. It seems that Aussies like their roses named after racehorses.
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See Evothia's comment from 2014. The horse was class: the rose, according to her, wasn't.
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#3 of 5 posted
17 AUG by
HubertG
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Despite whatever faults it might have I'm very fond of this rose and wouldn't want to be without it. Evothia doesn't like the fragrance but I think it's wonderful.
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I'm glad to hear it's still sold in nurseries. Perhaps it would perform better in the salubrious climate of Perth..
Both Black Caviar and Winx deserved the best in roses.
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#5 of 5 posted
18 AUG by
HubertG
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My only real gripe with 'Black Caviar' in my climate is that the hot sun can damage the petals, but this is common with lots of dark red roses, so I think it would fare much the same in Perth as in Sydney. I don't spray and it can also get a little black spot, but nothing to its real detriment. Generally it's quite healthy. I tend to prune mine hard and it branches well. I don't see the terribly long shoots some people here have mentioned. It starts flowering early and keeps going well into winter here in Sydney. Overall, a very satisfying rose.
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This appears to be holding up well in our heat here in GA.
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I wonder if the Grafin or her family gave permission for "her" rose to be re-named for a horse. Or if they were asked.
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#1 of 10 posted
12 MAR 19 by
HubertG
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Lol, I don't how rights for renaming roses for other countries work, but I do prefer the name 'Black Caviar' to the original German one.
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I looked up the Grafin on g**gle - think she deserved a rose more than the horse did. Unless you won lots of money on it!
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#3 of 10 posted
12 MAR 19 by
HubertG
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True, she did. However, Black Caviar is still easier to say.
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I'm sure the original German name flows quite nicely if you are German, but I'm equally sure her family didn't use her full title every time they referred to her. Just call it "Astrid" for short. ;)
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#5 of 10 posted
6 JUN 21 by
joekoel
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what is the actual variety name ie the German one
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Astrid Gräfin von Hardenberg.
Or, Nuit de Chine.
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#8 of 10 posted
6 JUN 21 by
joekoel
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Thanks Margaret but I think the 2 names you gave are only trademarks. I did find the actual name which is TAN97150. The actual variety names are now called ''codes'' .Variety names are now a joke . Roses become known by their trademarks which in reality makes them invalid Eg Iceberg started as a trademark but became so generically used (ie became the identity) that it is now an alternative variety name
The actual variety name is 'Korbin' but yes who would know it by this name !
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Different "trade" names are for individual markets and whatever additional royalties associated with them and rights to use said name. That's why some have multiple (and therefore confusing names). Especially if names are translated for local languages or changed for market suitability. The code registration name is for verification of identity to ensure the proper one is sold. There's nothing actually "illegitimate" about any of the names used for sale.
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#6 of 10 posted
6 JUN 21 by
joekoel
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Hi Hubert They simply use a trademark to identify the rose ( this is invalid use ie generic use of a trademark) which is wrong but they get away with it
There are cases though where the trademark through natural attrition rightfully becomes an alternative variety name ( ie synonym)
How many of you out there realise that Iceberg began as a trademark but is now far better known as the variety name than 'Korbin' ie it was so heavily misused it became an invalid trademark
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#4 of 10 posted
26 JAN 21 by
....
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Available from - Palatine Roses
https://palatineroses.com/product/black-caviar/
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