Ethel was my grandmother. She lived about four miles north of New Bethlehem, in Clarion County, Pennsylvania (cold end of Zone 5a). This rose was tall enough that, as a child, we could run under it. It may be R. alba Semiplena, and they certainly look alike. But it seems to show a need for more winter chilling to flower than does the form of Semiplena commonly sold in the US. The house was built in the 1890s. We know the bush was there by the early 1930s.
I have to disagree with Ozoldroser, it does look quite like 'Alba Semi Plena' or maybe 'Alba Suaveolens'. 'Alba Semi Plena' was used as a rootstock and often survives when the scion dies.
Andrew -- That's the issue. Alba Semiplena purchased decades ago, from Roses of Yesterday and Today did flower regularly for us. Ethel Yount's White, grown in the same area, did not. That's the only reason we have not concluded that they are identical. So my assumption is that it's a slight sport for a need for a bit more chilling. EYW does bloom just 100 miles north of us.
Pat, not sure if you mean mine or Andrew's. But if mine -- I don't have photos of it. We quit growing it perhaps ten years ago since, while it did flower, the flowering season was so short that we could not justify keeping such a large shrub in our very public garden, where our administration expects lots of flowers. I'm sure I must have photographed it, but I don't know where (or if) I would have those photos, almost certainly on film rather than digital, at this point.
'Alba Semi Plena' makes spectacular rose; growing 2 metres high and 2.5 metres across. The flowers are very pretty and have a wonderful fragrance. These are followed by prominent orange-red hips that persist until the end of winter. Alba roses seem to grow quite well in a cool wet climate. 'Alba Maxima' is just as rewarding. My plant originated as a sucker from a rose in a hedgerow near an old farmhouse where it grows 4 metres up into a tree.
I wonder if, perhaps, "Ethel Yount's White" isn't 'Alba Semi-Plena' but instead another, similar Alba known as "Sappho". This may account for differences in chill requirement you've seen. I've never grown it, but apparently Vintage Gardens carried it.
Christopher, I couldn't rule that out. It certainly was not bought from Vintage (we know the plant was present on my grandmother's farm by 1935). But of course, there may have been a commercial source of it back when the family acquired it.
Oh, I wasn't supposing that Vintage Gardens was the origin for "Ethel Yount's White". Rather, if you were interested in comparing it to "Sappho", you might be able to source a plant of it from Gregg Lowery. Maybe a DNA comparison could be made involving "Ethel Yount's White", "Sappho", 'Alba Semi-Plene', 'Alba-Maxima', and 'Suaveolens'.
I moved a plant of 'Alba Maxima', growing on its own roots, a couple of years ago. I must have left a small piece of root behind because it grew back. The "new" plant flowered for the first time this year, it was only semi-double and very similar to the plant in your link Christopher.
I've read elsewhere of 'Semi-Plena' or 'Maxima' sporting to the other. And there's a photo for 'Cymbaefolia' showing it sporting back to a "normal-leafed" Alba.
I think that another wrinkle is that it's likely that, over the centuries, seedlings of 'Semi-Plena' or something very much like it were raised, and so long as the resulting plants were similar enough to the parents, they were given the same name. So this could account for subtle differences in roses of 'Semi-Plena'-type, including "Ethel Yount's White" and "Sappho". It also could mean that the 'Maxima' and 'Cymbaefolia' sports derived from 'Semi-Plena'-type seedlings, rather than all from the same original plant.
Malcolm, maybe this could be an interesting study, especially if you're able to obtain 'Semi-Plena' from multiple sources.
I grow 'Sappho'. It could easily be another sport or seedling of 'Alba Semiplena'. Foliage and growth habit are typically alba like. The chief difference between 'Sappho' and 'Alba Semiplena' is that the petals of 'Sappho' spread almost flat, while semiplena retains a sort of widened cup shape to its' flowers. Because of this flat trait, 'Sappho's' flowers appear to be slightly larger than those of semiplena, though I am not sure that they are.
