I just wanted to add although I am not an expert I tell people to spray because I lived in a very bad climate for roses San Francisco with the worse conditions, cold dripping fog. This is the reason I tell people to spray. I read a lot posts on garden web from people who get a leave with rust or black spot, they think the way to cure it is to remove that leaf. While its true the leaves won't be cured from the rust, if you spray the new leaves will come back free from rust. But, they don't spray or the spray with the wrong product or the wrong way, it took me years to year this by myself pre internet. I would have liked someone to tell me back then so I could have saved a lot of roses. I killed off roses like a revolving door. So, back to the issue. As they remove first one leaf and then another the plant soon as no more leaves. They then blame the plant itself when it won't grow well with no leaves. They then bash the rose for example, Peace is a terrible rose, it get rust and black spot. There are some thing not worth growing in a wet climate. I had given up on buying new roses, I was down to two roses, when I was able to move to a better climate I did move. It depends on how much you love roses and how much you are willing to care about them. Will you take the extra steps to grow better roses or not? If I tell someone to spray, it is only that I want to help and not that I am insulting them. Hydrangeas are just as bad as roses in terms of fungal on the leaves. Some people just don't want to spray and won't spray because they want to be organic. That is fine, just don't bash the rose. There was an episode of King of the Hill in which Peggy is part of an organic collective garden, but she can't stand all the bugs so she sneaks in a night and sprays the garden. If you don't want to spray, you have to live with what ever fungal and bugs you may be getting. Only you can make the choice. I have told people when they ask me I don't garden organically and as far as know you can be pest free organically. It is just a bitter fact of life. Even own roots roses nurseries spray for fungal. I once bought some plant from a real no spray organic nursery in Richmond CA called Annie's Annual. Each time they get fungal, they would compost the plant. As soon as I got the plants home with in a week they had died of fungal. Richmond is very dry compared to San Francisco. But, I was like I don't blame Annie's, I was just testing out the annuals. But with roses you don't want to be throwing them out just because they got some fungal.