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'Mutabilis' rose Reviews & Comments
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She might possibly have 'Rosa Damascena Celsiana Prolifera', which apparently, according to its HMF entry, does have some repeat bloom. That does seem unlikely, as HMF shows no reference for this rose since 1824, and no record of it being either sold or grown anywhere.
It is interesting that Eastloe's description of 'Celsiana' might very well fit an alba ( except for the repeat bloom): "Tall shrub", "grey green" foliage, "will tolerate partial shade". Curiouser and curiouser.
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Does her photo look like 'Quatre Saisons'? That repeats if one deadheads it.
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Her photo shows a flower in the early stages of opening with a fully opened flower in hazy background. Not having grown 'Quatre Saisons', I couldn't say, but that is likely what happened. Maybe tags were switched at the nursery. The photo to me looks more like a Hybrid Perpetual than a Damask, but I have only grown two Damasks. She also gives dimensions of 2 meters height by 1.5 meters spread, which sounds rather large for 'Quatre Saisons'.
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I have a couple of small points to add to this discussion
First, Vintage Gardens Book of Roses, under 'Amelia' states, p. 23, " (see CELSIANA under Damasks)".
Peter Beales' book Roses p.175, under the entry for 'Amelia' states: "Often confused with and grown as the Damask "Celsiana". Beales' description of 'Celsiana' refers to "reasonably contained growth habit" which is not at all my experience with 'Amelia'.
My 'Amelia', or 'Celsiana', if that is what it is, is just finishing a spectacular bloom. It threw out canes 15'-20' long. The flowers are large for an alba, with about 3" diameters, and opened fully to show the stamens. They looked a lot like the flowers of my Damask, 'St. Nicolas'. As of right now, I would have to say that the flowers look Damask-like while the foliage looks like a hybrid alba. We would seem to have the same rose in commerce using two names. Every description I have seen of 'Celsiana' mentions large growth and grey-green or greyish foliage.
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The book Vintage Roses--despite the title, the book showcases a lot of modern roses--from Gibbs Smith of Layton Utah, 2016 text by Jane Eastoe and stunning photography by Georgiana Lane, both Englishwomen, showed up at Barnes & Noble near me.
Jane Eastoe gardens in Kent. Her entry for 'Celsiana' is on pg. 38 with photo on the facing page 39. Whatever rose she is growing as 'Celsiana' she claims "Repeats and repeats". She also recommends that "Celsiana should be deadheaded to promote repeat flowering". Her 'Celsiana' cannot possibly be what I have as 'Amelia', which has no repeat at all. I have grown 'Amelia' in two different gardens, one plant from Heirloom in the 90s and more recently a grafted plant from Pickering.
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#1 of 4 posted
12 MAY 17 by
Gdisaz10
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I don't think if the bush or fragrance are different, but thir rose for me is very like Amelia.
Did you find any differences?
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I have not grown 'Celsiana', so I could not say. My 'Amelia' looks alba like in every respect. What kind of growth have you seen in 'Celsiana'? Have you seen 'Celsiana' repeat bloom.
The new book I referred to is a kind of lavishly photographed coffee table type of publication and normally could not be considered a definitive resource, but I gather that one of the authors is a skilled gardener so if she says 'Celsiana', or whatever was sold to her under that name does have some repeat bloom, I don't doubt that it does.
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#3 of 4 posted
14 MAY 17 by
Gdisaz10
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Celsiana is not a repeat bloming. My rose is as Amelia. These rose for me are the same!
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That is as I suspected. There are several sources for 'Celsiana' in the USA, including Greenmantle whose identities I trust. I shall order a 'Celsiana', probably for next season, and plant it near my 'Amelia' for comparison.
My guess, and I emphasize that it is only a guess, is that the plant is more likely an alba than a Damask, and that the name 'Amelia' is the one most likely to be correct.
Pickering, late and lamented nursery in Canada, sourced their roses from Europe, so I think my 'Amelia' is in fact the cultivar grown by that name in Europe.
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Is the rose really like Alba rose Amelia?
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The 'Celsiana' photos look a lot like my 'Amelia', which will be blooming in June.
I should be able to compare when they both bloom if they bloom at the same time.
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#2 of 9 posted
30 APR 17 by
Gdisaz10
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Thanks
Peter Beales inserts amelia in damask roses
Disease resistence is the same? And the bush?
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I bought 4 albas from Pickering in 2010, 'Amelia', 'Celestial', 'Mme. Legras de Sainte Germain', and 'alba foliacea', all on multiflora rootstock. I find that albas on rootstock tend to flop. I much prefer them own root; then you get the stately alba architecture I like so well. All four have the long, floppy canes of grafted albas. I couldn't say it has a typically Damask growth habit. I have only grown two Damasks, 'Mme Hardy' some years ago, and 'St. Nicolas' now, and both were much shorter plants with much more lateral spread than any alba I have grown.
What I can do is take some cuttings of my 'Amelia' to compare with the 'Celsiana' at the Syracuse rose garden.
BTW, I don't think 'Amelia' is still in commerce. I would be happy to supply cuttings if anyone wants them.
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As for disease resistance, no problem. Now if I could figure out a way to deter the wabbits....
Albas show no disease at all except for the very occasional bit of BS on lower leaves at end of season.
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#5 of 9 posted
1 MAY 17 by
Gdisaz10
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Very thank you.
Here in Italy i find Amelia.
I was looking for Celsiana and in my opinion there are no differences, but i dont'know the development of the bush.
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Cheap & stinky curry powder deters rabbits well .. have been effective for the last 4 years. Previously I tried garlic powder, Irish spring soap, cayenne spray and those WERE NOT EFFECTIVE.
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I don't have rabbits to deal with, but curious as to whether you think that the curry adds anything to your mineral profile? Or is it not enough to matter?
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Lavenderlace: I checked the nutrients in curry, it has 10% iron and 13% manganese .. both are essential for roses. No harm was done when I sprinkled curry ON THE SOIL, around the bush. But one summer I sprinkled curry on the leaves, and that scorched the leaves in hot sun. Deer and rabbits stay away from curry whether it's on the ground, or on the leaves. I can smell the curry 10 feet away.
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I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to have rabbits eating the roses so very happy that you found a solution. And fascinating to read the results of your experiments, thank you!
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