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"Legacy of the Richardson Family" rose Reviews & Comments
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Does anyone have a Mlle de Sombreuil with continuity of the name, ie not a found rose? Thanks.
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#1 of 2 posted
7 OCT 19 by
 jedmar
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Difficult in Europe due to all the wars. Sangerhausen has 'Sombreuil' at least since 1936. See photos of John Hook and others. L'Haÿ only had 'Colonial White' back in 2007, and still shows it on its Website:
https://collections-roseraie.valdemarne.fr/index.php?metier=varietes&action=fiche&id=3010
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Thank you - that's a start.
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I am growing La Biche (from Roses Unlimited) and comparing them to Mlle. de Sombreuil from Sangerhausan and Tete D'Or (not Sombrieuil climbing) which I have and they are not the same. The La Biche is definately a Noisette growing in excess to 8 ft with cluster flowers so I will continue calling it La Biche
John Hook
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#1 of 4 posted
10 SEP 07 by
jedmar
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This is interesting! We are comparing Mlle de Sombreuil (ex La Biche) from Vintage Gardens with Mlle de Sombreuil from Sangerhausen and also believe they are not the same. Can you post pictures of your Sombreuils from Sangerhausen and Tete d'Or, including some botanical details? We will do the same.
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OK, as soon as I get some decent photos, or contact me at www.frenchtearose.com
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Do you know whether there are records of the provenance of roses currently growing in the important European collections, or whether anyone is working on this?
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I am try to find an original 'La Biche'. I believe one of these was planted on my family farm in Ky in the 1800's. Do you have any to see?
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Can anyone provide information regarding Mlle. de Sombreuil's disease resistance?
TIA
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I grow "Carlesruhe cemetery Maria Bruhn", which is said to match roses grown as Mlle de Sombreuil. It's healthy in my no-spray garden, zone 9b, Mediterranean-type climate.
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Thank you for responding. I am also wondering how well Mlle. de Sombreuil performs in humid Southern climates?
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Better than average mildew resistance unless extremely water stressed. Very good rust resistance with some black spot showing up late in the season on old foliage. That is in Zone 9b, Central California Coast, nine miles from the Pacific Ocean with extreme marine influence.
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We had some students doing DNA work in the summer of 2018. Using RAPD (with 5 primers), they found that George Washington Richardson is identical to Mlle. de Sombreuil. So it should likely be listed as a synonym for that rose.
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Interesting work. Question: what was the source of the Mlle de Sombreuil they used?
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#2 of 10 posted
6 APR 19 by
mmanners
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Margaret, It was the one grown by Vintage Gardens, originally found by Philip Robinson, and which appears identical to the one in the Lyon botanic garden.
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Thank you. My memory says it was Phillip who identified our "Carlesruhe Cemetery Maria Bruhn" as Mlle de Sombreuil. Pat and Patricia have noted that it grows more like a Bourbon, eg Souv de la Malmaison - but Malmaison is half Tea.
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I only saw “Carlesruhe Cemetery Maria Bruhn” in situ twice and noted that it had stout growth. I actually wouldn’t really recognise a Bourbon if I fell over one. But I am having great difficulty in matching the stout growth I saw on “Carlesruhe Cemetery Maria Bruhn” with the fragile slender growth of "Mystery Cream Tea", also said to be ‘Mlle de Sombreuil’. Sorry, I haven’t really done my homework on this question, so forgive any foot in mouth ignorance.
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#5 of 10 posted
6 APR 19 by
jedmar
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The pictures of CCMB have a lot in common with Nestel's drawing of Mlle de Sombreuil. Have a look at the colour and form of the buds and sepals for example. In Nestel's drawing the buds are shown as nodding, but they were apparently upright (See Comment on Nestel drawing uploaded by Christina Macleod). The buds of the "Mystery Cream Tea" are shaped differently.
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"Mystery Cream Tea" is so similar to Devoniensis, we had to grow them side by side at Renmark to show it was different. It's a vicious one.
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Malcolm, I’ve merged “George Washington Richardson” with “"Huntington La Biche”. It has ended up where you wanted it. I am sorry for the delay.
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"Mystery Cream Tea" "Range View Pink Tea" is a completely different rose than "Carlsruhe Cemetery Maria Bruhn" in habit, growth and features and the flowers of the former two study roses haven't much substance at all (finer and earlier?)
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#9 of 10 posted
7 APR 19 by
jedmar
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The provenance of 'Mlle de Sombreuil' at Tête d'Or is not certain - most of the OGR's there are recent plantings. I would only trust a DNA comparison of the various clones, not a visual identification.
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DNA testing, except for those with research facilities, is a cost I can't justify. For roses without continuity of name, we have to rely on skilled observers and/or appropriately detailed photos. For the time being I think we can assume that "Carlesruhe Cemetery Maria Bruhn" is the same as "Huntington La Biche" and "George Washington Richardson" and the Tete d'Or rose labelled Mlle de Sombreuil, but whether the last is its correct name is uncertain.
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