HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 7 APR 23 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 7 APR 23 by HollyH2
I have had this rose for a few years now and would love to know more about its back story...does anyone know? I received mine from a friend and she does not know the story...she thinks she recalls getting hers from Vintage. I would love to know who found it and where, when, etc...any more info would be fantastic. Mine did well for me in CA and is doing well here in Texas too!
Thank you!!!
most recent 27 NOV 21 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 27 NOV 21 by HollyH2
Hi, I saw that you have Kathryn Morley and I would love some cuttings if you are willing to share any…either now or when you are ready to prune them. I will pay for the shipping. My email is
Thank you very much!
Holly Hagy
most recent 14 MAR 19 SHOW ALL
Initial post 7 JUN 16 by scvirginia
"[Léonie Bell's] 1969 article “A Recipe for Roast Crow” poked fun at her misidentification in The Fragrant Year of the rose she had by then become the first to correctly identify as the Damask ‘Bella Donna’ (Thomas and most other experts knew it as ‘Queen of the Centifolias’)."’s-bell-garden
I don't have access to the above-referenced article; if anyone can provide the relevant reference, I think that would be useful.

Reply #1 of 5 posted 8 JUN 16 by Patricia Routley
While the words "roast crow" sound familiar to me, I wonder if it is the 1969 American Rose Annual page 66 article by Leonie Bell entitled 'The Rose That Is Not Kazanlik' that you are after?
Reply #2 of 5 posted 8 JUN 16 by scvirginia
Very possibly it is the same article, and the "citation" I had was incorrect. If not, the title you have sounds like the content is probably much the same.

It sounds like Bell believed that the rose that was (and still is?) in commerce as 'Centifolia Queen' ('Reine des Centfeuilles') was actually the Damask 'Bella Donna'. I'm not sure how 'Kazanlik' ties in unless that was her first guess when she decided the Centifolia Queen was actually a Damask.

What I'm wondering is what her sources were for the 'Bella Donna' ID. There are very few early references that I can find; they are all in English from the 1840's, and not very detailed. Did the French really not have this rose, or did they call it something else? It's a puzzlement.

Reply #3 of 5 posted 9 JUN 16 by Patricia Routley
I'll get the article to you.
Reply #4 of 5 posted 11 JUN 16 by scvirginia
Thanks for scanning and sending, Patricia- that was very kind.

After reading through the article, it sounds like Bell studied descriptions of Damask roses in the catalogs of Buist and Prince, ruled out most of the Damasks listed as not describing her foundling, and was left with two candidates that might be her rose: 'Bella Donna' and 'Grand Triomphe'. In this article, she was leaning towards 'Grand Triomphe' as the correct ID for her rose, so I'm guessing that in the 'Roast Crow' article, she favored 'Bella Donna' as an ID?

She felt that the 'Grand Triomphe' of Buist and Prince in America corresponded in description to 'Le Triomphe' as described by Mrs. Gore. I guess I need to add that plant record...

Thanks again,
Reply #5 of 5 posted 14 MAR 19 by HollyH2
Hi. Did you read Nicole Juday’s Article about Bella Donna in the book Mystery Roses? She sheds some light on the info Ms. Bell had in I’d-ing this rose in the ‘70’s...
most recent 6 MAR 19 SHOW ALL
Initial post 4 JUN 10 by Charles Quest-Ritson
This is a photograph of a Moss rose. 'Josephine de Beauharnais' was an Alba and/or a HP.
Reply #1 of 3 posted 8 JUN 13 by SteffenAlbrecht
That is probably true, I was wondering as well, but then the rose is mislabelled in the Roseraie du Val de Marne (Hay).
Reply #2 of 3 posted 12 MAY 14 by Chris Bensick
Vintage Gardens of California has also sold this rose (imported from Loubert) as Josephine de Beauharnais. Like the photo from Roseraie de l'Hay, it is very mossy, and unlike the published descriptions, it has deep crimson flowers. Although the attribution (by both Loubert and l'Hay) is possibly a misnomer, it is a fine rose and any further information about its identity would be appreciated.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 6 MAR 19 by HollyH2
Yes, I purchased mine from Vintage and mine is a moss, dark pink. Magenta. At first I thought it could be Eugene de Beauharnais but it doesn’t resemble it at all. Not in the buds, foliage or prickles. It’s a beautiful rose, whatever it is, for now, mine stays labeled as Josephine with a question mark after it.
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