HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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Initial post
15 MAR 10 by
kev
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again the picture here does not fit the rose described .the rose is a white/pale pink. the picture here is that of a bright rose pink type there are so many like this here. that i doubt the professional objectivity and research savy of those who built this site. to say the least i am disapointed.
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I believe that the photo is one of a plant sold as or labeled as Madame Dubost. You will note on the description page that the roses photographed may have a different identity. HMF actually HELPS identify roses mislabeled in commerce or public gardens. There are many old 19th century roses in collection and commercial nurseries with incorrect names. Most people here recognize this. Just the same, until the plant is correctly identified, isn't it better to identify it as it is sold or seen? What else should we call the photographed rose? If you have any better ideas, please offer them. The point is to confuse as few people as possible while working to correctly identify old roses. And this site had done much to accomplish that.
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Here here!
HMF is the most comprehensive and up to date collection of rose information ever assembled, most FREE to the public.
Many roses exist mis-labeled in old collections and arboretums as seems to be the case here.
We're all doing our best to make heads or tails of the information being presented. It is through the generous efforts of those donating time and energy that the site exists at all.
It's very easy to criticize and much more difficult to be constructive in terms of making the information presented as accurate as possible.
Much thanks to all involved.
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#3 of 5 posted
15 MAR 10 by
 Cass
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Thanks for the votes of confidence. There's nothing like criticism to motivate us to find more old rose references. In this case, those references disclose a range of color descriptions from dark bright pink to pinkish white with bright pink center. Somehow, over time, those descriptions have been distilled to two words: "light pink." Two similar rose names further complicate the task. After reviewing contemporaneous sources, I do not share the the anonymous poster's certitude that the color of this rose is pale pink.
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#4 of 5 posted
15 MAR 10 by
jedmar
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It seems that you have not fully understood the nature of HMF. Photos can be posted by every member, References by administrators. It happens that photos are not in line with the descriptions. This can be an indication that the rose in commerce or in gardens is incorrectly identified. The following process of comparison and discussion leads to better insights.
I also believe it would be more honest to have your criticisms posted under your name, and not anonymously.
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HMF is a volunteer system, which means you can also add insight. It improves year by year. When I first joined HMF, when it was new, the only other thing that existed were a few small online listings and places like bulbnrose. I joined HMF when it was new, and I have contributed to it every year. Many of us have. It's a mostly selfless act. You should too :D The more accurate, the better.
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There appears to be two different plants in the photos. One, with the very blue flowers, appears to be Reine des Violettes with particularly blue flowers in bloom. The other plant has pinker flowers and many prickles, clearly not Reine des Violettes. This just adds to the confusion over the General Stefanik/Reine des Violettes identity. At least I am confused!
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I think your comment is spot on .
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#2 of 2 posted
5 FEB 21 by
jedmar
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Yes, 'Général Stefanik' is indeed confusing. Early references state that Böhm faked at least some of his cultivars, and that 'Général Stefanik' was nothing else than 'Reine des Violettes'. However, none of the two different varieties in commerce and gardens currently resemble 'Reine des Violettes'. Both have relatively small to medium, untidy blooms. I am adding several photos from our garden which shows the colour variation, vigorous growth, and prominent eye.
There is some similarity to the rose sold as 'Centifolia à fleurs doubles violettes' in Germany, but buds, glands etxc are distinct from that.
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Neighbors of mine has this planted in their front garden. The house is modern and the front garden was obviously "designed" by a landscape architect using only evergreen shrubs and no flowers, except a large plant of Butterscotch. The plant always seems to have some flowers on it from April until December. The flower color is certainly interesting. It is not to my taste, but in this setting it is striking and quite beautiful. I can't imagine trying to combine it's unearthly colors with other roses and flowers, but it is an arresting sight on its own.
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I confess I love the color. I've bred several things from it. It's an easy parent.
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It's just such a weird color! It's very had to even describe. It reminds me of so many Legrice roses -- fascinating, bizarre and unearthly colors that change with temperature conditions and light. Butterscotch will undoubtably make some fascinating seedlings. You have more courage than I would.
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Yes, it's a weird color. It was a favorite of the hybridizer but never caught on with much of the public. From what I can gather disease resistance is average, at best, but it's never mildewed for me which is saying something.
Most offspring were/are unremarkable. Most yellow and a few mauve or russet with probably half climbers. It could be explored much further but I don't have the space or time.
Some of the best colors came out of 'Smoky' as pollen parent but all mildew to some degree.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=66744&tab=1
I will reveal all parentages in time. If you'd like to see other seedlings out of Cl. Butterscotch contact me directly.
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#4 of 7 posted
24 JAN 11 by
Darli
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I am hunting for Butterscotch Climber aka JACtan. I like the almost "paperbag" shade I see in photographs. I would like to add it to a mostly green garden area, but darn I can't find a plant source. I do have some rootstock ready for grafting in my Victoria BC garden. Bu I also have a garden in Arizona where my roses do amazingly well. Can you provife me with a sourcee for cuttings or plants? Thanks, kindly. Darlene White
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Please click the HOW DO I button at the top of the page to learn how to find the source of a rose.
Smiles,
Lyn
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It's now available from Grace Rose Farm. They have many usually colored roses.
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Rose Story Farm In Santa Barbara also just had some for sale.
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Initial post
16 APR 09 by
maele
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Love, love, love it! So far it's doing well in it's first southern california spring that's been a little colder than usual. Still waiting to see what it does in the HOT summer ahead, but will post an update. Blooms like crazy, and no blooms fell off in yesterday's high winds. Beautiful ruffled edges, worth it for that feature alone. Also, no signs of disease. Colors are muted but pretty, open up russettish, fade to salmon pinkish/lavender when spent.
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This is a nice, healthy rose that blooms freely and well. I just can't stand the color. It must be a personal quirk, but the color is very unsettled, harsh and doesn't combine well with other colors in the garden.
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Jeff, you got further than I did. I couldn't bring myself to purchase CdM.
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#3 of 21 posted
11 MAY 09 by
Don H
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There is a bed of Cinco de Mayo at Elizabeth Park in Hartford. I have to say that the photos at HMF don't really capture its appearance in a bed, or even the flowers - the blooms have much more yellow in them here. It's a hugely floriferous plant, as well.
That said, the foliage and especially the canes detract from it, being very rustic looking and quite prickly. It is not high on my list as a breeder but I do think it would be worth exploring and may give it some attention this year as a pollen parent. I have a couple of OP seedlings going of it as well.
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I didn't buy CDM to put in my garden. NO way would the color work anywhere. I bought three plants for a neighbor and she's thrilled with them. She likes anything bright and gaudy, and in her garden it seems to look O.K. CDM does flower like a trooper, though the growth is a bit uneven -- some short and some tall canes, so you don't get a very rounded bush without some heavy-handed pruning.
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You know, I knew that the color of CDM reminded me of something, and yesterday the penny dropped. The color reminds me of when someone's mother used to mix grape Kool-Aid with Hawaiian Punch and serve it at a kids party. It tasted strange, too!
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#5 of 21 posted
15 MAY 09 by
Linette
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We purchased the Cinco de Mayo and what a disappointment. It's a healthy plant and blooms frequently, however the color is awful and not as pictured at all. I thought the more it bloomed and became established, that the color would be truer to the picture but I think it has settled on a Coral with some blooms containing yellow streaks. I purchased this rose specifically for a corner that had been without for years (waiting on the right one) and I thought I had found the one with Cinco de Mayo. The blooms do not last long and the only positive I can find is the foliage color. This is one rose that I will be removing once I find a better one to add. I have never felt this way about a plant and much more a rose. I learn to live with the sometimes "not as pictured" roses but this rose is so different in color, it would almost be easier to believe they packaged the wrong plant in error. I only see the purple hues when the flower has died (so dead the petals are dry).
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Thank you for the info. that blooms don't last long.
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Wow I'm shocked with everyone disliking the color. I find it to be too beautiful for words! There is no way to photograph it and capture its nuances and color variations. I guess to each his own. I do wonder though if location makes a difference. Some roses look like completely different roses if viewed across the states and globe. I've mixed mine with a lavender pink rose and two very deep red roses. The combo is divine!
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#9 of 21 posted
4 JUN 09 by
maele
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The color does change a LOT, but I find the foliage really pretty. Even though it does match absolutely nothing, I am planning to put it with lavender perennials, a red japanese maple that is a dark maroon, and maybe small red roses. For me the second bloom cycle had a few dark orange flowers, but my friend's plant did turn very gaudy as some of you mentioned. Hers is from Star and mine is from Weeks, but I don't know if it makes a difference.
Now mine seems to have settled into a beautiful muted russet color, and it blooms all the time. I agree with everyone that this is a strange looking plant, but I still like it. One cool thing is that the color can pull together other random colors in a vase of cut roses, since it has a little bit of everything.
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I can see 'Distant Drums' as a good companion rose! Just thought of this combo!
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"Yikes", lol, I had the same reaction!
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Robert, you have no taste :P
I actually like this rose. It has a nice bushy habit. The color is very Fall-like here in Oregon. It is very rustic. It actually has a strong Pacific NW feel to it. My main complaint of it is that I feel it should be stronger smelling for what it is. I wish Distant Drums had a more natural bush like CdM does, and I wish CdM had a more memorable scent like DD does, lol.
At any rate, I would recommend this rose for rounding out any angular corners in the garden --especially those corners that need a smooth, dark touch to it -- not something punctual or attention seeking.
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Vive la difference! ;-)
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C'mon guys! Are ya color blind? ;) I just thought with Distant Drums being peach pink and purple it would echo a paler version of Cinco de Mayo. Now stop making fun of my color sense - I do have a Master of Fine Arts in Painting after all - whadyo got? ;)
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Degrees in horticulture. ;-)
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Now add Victoriana, and you'll have the full catastrophe.
(My degree is in radiology - black & white stuff.)
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Degree in horticulture and strong opinions. That's all. And in NO way do I mean to demean anyone's color sense. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I believe that completely. CDM has merits that I cannot appreciate, but you do. Thank God we're not all alike!
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