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twojays 
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GardenDiscussion id : 133-210
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Captain of Hearts comes up on Search listing but not recognised when trying to update Garden plant list (Victoria State Rose Garden)
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Hello Wal. Perhaps ‘Queen of Hearts’?
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Or try The Captain of Hearts.
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Initial post
25 MAR 21 by
petera
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I finally got to Werribee Park to compare the plants labelled as Cloth of Gold and Rev TC Cole. They both looked pretty tired at the end of the season and after heavy rain, with little new growth and few flowers. The Cloth of Gold is a BIG plant, not a bush. If this is same plant as the Chromatella said to be more like a bush then it must have grown a lot in the meantime.
Cloth of Gold on the left and Rev TC Cole on the right in each pair.
Old prickles low on the plants were quite distinct but younger prickles were hooked on both. I remain confused.
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Petera, you have captured an important difference between the two roses. Excellent.
So that things are very clear years down the track, I have taken the liberty of adding captions to those very clear photos of the old wood prickles as follows:
Werribee’s Chromatella (syn Cloth of Gold) with wing-shaped prickles on old wood.
Werribee’s “Ma Lovelock” thought by some to be ‘Reverend T. C. Cole’, with curved and hooked prickles on old wood.
Would you please double check those captions.
So, we are still looking for the provenance of Werribee’s Chromatella (syn Cloth of Gold).
Wal, if you are watching, can you contribute any more on this plant?
Pat, I know the Grand Cru Estate, South Australia ‘Chromatella’ is a very large plant. Would you say the old-wood prickles match any of Peter’s photos prickles?
Other old-wood prickle photos from other members on relevant roses might be of value.
(In the back of my mind, the Old Parliament House gardens rose/s are ringing a bell, but I am not up with my filing)
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Reply
#2 of 9 posted
26 MAR 21 by
petera
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Patricia, I am happy with your extra captions.
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Yes definitely to the first photo of the winged prickles on old wood on the Grand Cru plant. I would add a photo but there is not a way in comments to post one when replying.
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There is, but not when you first reply - you have to go back into your reply to find an Add Photo button.
Am thinking this would be a good pair to do if we can run DNA comparisons.
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Pat do you have any photos of the prickles on the really old wood close to the ground? Petera is comparing those prickles.
Margaret, can you amend your photo with the study name - was this “Ma Lovelock’s”? The text of it reads “Summer, South Australia, in a derelict garden accessible to cattle.”
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Patricia not sure if you can see any prickles on these old canes and base.
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No, "Ma Lovelock's" comes from a roadside fence in Meadows. The photo you mention was taken of a plant in Cherry Gardens, down a gully.
I have moved my photos of "Ma Lovelock's" to the Reverend T C Cole file.
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#8 of 9 posted
27 MAR 21 by
twojays
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Finally got through! Hazel Le Rougetel's book ;A Heritage of Roses 1988 quotes ;Hughes Park, Watervale, South Australia. A mansion built between 1867 and 1873, along a balustrade a Cloth of Gold with a massive trunk has grown for over a century."
The Cloth of Gold we have at the Victoria State Rose Garden came from Stoneacres Farm and Nursery, Drysdale, Victoria in 2000.
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Thank you for that twojays. Sometimes knowing the provenance will solve all sorts of queries. I have just added Dianne Ackland’s 1999 reference for Chromatella, and 28 nurseries were stocking it at that time. It was and is a much loved rose.
Now I guess we just have to work out what the rose is that is growing next to it at Werribee - the rose that people have been surmising may be ‘Reverend T. C. Cole’. Knowing why they think so would be helpful. However, we just might have to wait for spring until more distinguishing photos of buds and blooms may be added. Thank you again Wal.
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Mrs Anthony Waterer is located in the Heritage Border of the Victoria State Rose Garden. The photo is probably Picasso.
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What has ‘Mrs Anthony Waterer’ got to do with this photo twojays? The photographer Victoria Rose seems to have taken just a general overall photo of the garden.
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#2 of 3 posted
1 OCT 20 by
twojays
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We had a query on where to buy Mrs Anthony and when researching sources (without success) the photo attached to her was the overview of the garden with the one in front being the one which I think is Picasso.
Sorry for the confusion, Patricia. Wal J
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Thank you Wal. Perfectly explained. So good to see your name on HelpMeFind.
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We have been reliably informed that the two Lisa Colfax in the Victoria State Rose Garden are the only ones left in the world. We would be delighted to be told we are wrongly informed.
As at October 2020, both Lisa Colefax plants succumbed to rabbit, rat or possum damage. Lisa is no more.
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Sad. But thanks for letting Australians know.
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